Law & Order in Freefall. Only 1% of bike thefts charged, never mind convicted.

[The Crofted Crest]

it will always be the Tories fault, have I got this right?

In one, shep!

 

[Deleted member 28]

In one, shep!

Got it now, can't wait to experience some life changing improvements once Labour get in.

 

[newfhouse]

So really unless Labour stay in power for at least 3 terms they can do whatever they like because it will always be the Tories fault, have I got this right?

No, you haven’t understood the post you quoted. There will always be latency between action and effect. If you drop a spanner from the top of a tall tower it won‘t hit your mate on the ground for a couple of seconds, will it?

 

[icowden]

Got it now, can't wait to experience some life changing improvements once Labour get in.

They can't do any worse. But it will take time...

 

[Deleted member 28]

No, you haven’t understood the post you quoted. There will always be latency between action and effect. If you drop a spanner from the top of a tall tower it won‘t hit your mate on the ground for a couple of seconds, will it?

I do understand but it seems to me whatever happens it'll always be the Tories fault.

Imagine Labour get in power for one term, implement some new policies and changes, it'll take how long to feel those changes?

Tories then get in 4yrs later and it's just as bad as before, I bet my shirt on opinion being either 'they didn't have enough time' or 'still recovering from the Tories' so lets just see shall we.

Apparently it took 5yrs before the Tories increased crime rates so how long do you think Labour will take to reduce them?

 

[newfhouse]

Imagine Labour get in power for one term, implement some new policies and changes, it'll take how long to feel those changes?

That will depend on the policy and the implementation strategy.

Apparently it took 5yrs before the Tories increased crime rates so how long do you think Labour will take to reduce them?

How long does it take to recruit and train, then provide enough mentoring and real world experience to make a difference? How long would it take in your business before an inexperienced recruit could do the job as well as you? If you combine that with reorganisation and changing priorities it could easily take a few years to make a measurable difference. And, of course, it all depends on what they choose to measure, doesn’t it?

What happened when the Tories cut police numbers and eroded pensions and other working conditions was that many experienced officers stuck with it until a trickle became a flood and they felt they couldn’t continue or their pension hit their personal financial threshold.

All these arguments could apply equally to doctors, nurses, paramedics, teachers, and anyone else in public service jobs that require specialist training. No thinking person promises or expects overnight utopia, do they?

 

[Deleted member 28]

That will depend on the policy and the implementation strategy.


How long does it take to recruit and train, then provide enough mentoring and real world experience to make a difference? How long would it take in your business before an inexperienced recruit could do the job as well as you? If you combine that with reorganisation and changing priorities it could easily take a few years to make a measurable difference. And, of course, it all depends on what they choose to measure, doesn’t it?

What happened when the Tories cut police numbers and eroded pensions and other working conditions was that many experienced officers stuck with it until a trickle became a flood and they felt they couldn’t continue or their pension hit their personal financial threshold.

All these arguments could apply equally to doctors, nurses, paramedics, teachers, and anyone else in public service jobs that require specialist training. No thinking person promises or expects overnight utopia, do they?

So were the crime rates so much higher during Maggies tenure than during the previous Labour spell and if so was that her fault or Labours and she couldn't fix it?

I obviously don't know but I'm trying to ascertain if the only time this country has ever been any good was when the Tories weren't in power.

There must be a graph somewhere showing when (or indeed if) this country was ever 'in a good place'.

 

[Deleted member 121]

Theoretical?
Erm no, its the basis of the criminal justice system that the state as prosecutor has to prove each and every element of the theft
You want more statistics? The rest of us would rather have police resources used to prevent crimes / obtain evidence to prosecute successfully crimes than producing statistics for Dave to argue on the internet about

You do realise there is a whole government department dedicated for keeping of statistics? Im flattered that you think it's for me to argue shite on the internet with but I'm utterly convinced it is not for me. I will say it it again, im aware of the legal process, but how many cases are thrown out on the basis that the victim could not prove he/she owned the bike that is reported stolen?

 

[icowden]

There must be a graph somewhere showing when (or indeed if) this country was ever 'in a good place'.

Why do you need a graph?

Like her or loathe her the economy did well under Thatcher and the country prospered. Things went off the boil with Major. The country again did well under Blair, but started to go downhill under Cameron before becoming a full on bobsled run. The only way from this point is up, and the Conservatives have shown that they no longer have what it takes, they have severely damaged trade and the economy, trashed the justice system, defunded education, tried to kill off the health service and all in the name of making their mates rich.

End of.

it doesn't matter at this stage whether you are traditionally Conservative, Lib Dem or Labour. What matters is that you have to be some sort of deranged deluded nutcase to think that continuing with the Conservative Government is a good idea.

 

[newfhouse]

So were the crime rates so much higher during Maggies tenure than during the previous Labour spell and if so was that her fault or Labours and she couldn't fix it?

Methods of counting have changed so it isn’t easy to compare over such a timescale. Many crimes that are prevalent now simply didn’t exist forty years ago, online fraud for example.

What we do know is that the prison population has increased (hurrah for Serco and G4S) but most people believe crime has also increased. Is it possible that contrary to Willie Whitelaw and Michael Howard, prison doesn’t work in too many cases?

I obviously don't know but I'm trying to ascertain if the only time this country has ever been any good was when the Tories weren't in power.

The country remains pretty good. The arguments are about how to maintain and improve, surely?

There must be a graph somewhere showing when (or indeed if) this country was ever 'in a good place'.

I could draw one but you’d likely argue about what I think constitutes good.

 

[newfhouse]

Like her or loathe her the economy did well under Thatcher

That’s a firm ‘loathe’ from me.

 

[Deleted member 28]

That’s a firm ‘loathe’ from me.

Well, the economy was either good or it wasn't surely.

 

[Deleted member 49]

Like her or loathe her the economy did well under Thatcher and the country prospered

Lol.

 

[icowden]

Well, the economy was either good or it wasn't surely.

@newfhouse was commenting on Thatcher herself not her government's policies or the result of them. You can loathe Thatcher but still acknowledge that she turned the economy around after the disastrous Labour Government.

We now need the reverse with a sensible Labour Party / Liberal coalition to undo that done by the disastrous Conservative Government.

 

[Deleted member 28]

@newfhouse was commenting on Thatcher herself not her government's policies or the result of them. You can loathe Thatcher but still acknowledge that she turned the economy around after the disastrous Labour Government.

Well, I never thought I would read that on here!

Are you the one moving to Staffordshire at some point, getting yourself ready?