Let’s talk about BBC

[AuroraSaab]

It doesn't look to have been random. The video of the first victim shows he was dressed in traditional Jewish orthodox clothing. It's then five minutes before the second victim at the bus stop, during which time he must have passed other people or seen others. He heads for a bus stop with an adult male dressed in black clothing. It's a fuzzy video but the victim looks to be holding the traditional fedora style hat. In the background you can see other people that the attacker has walked past. So no, not random, but targetted at those who are physically identifiable as orthodox Jewish males.

The third victim was his mate, who he stabbed earlier in the day. It perhaps didn't come to light until the police went to his house.

I find it very hard to believe this was anything other than an antisemitic attack. Which isn't to say there isn't a mental health component, but it isn't some random incident. He'd been referred to Prevent previously too.

 

[C R]

It doesn't look to have been random. The video of the first victim shows he was dressed in traditional Jewish orthodox clothing. It's then five minutes before the second victim at the bus stop, during which time he must have passed other people or seen others. He heads for a bus stop with an adult male dressed in black clothing. It's a fuzzy video but the victim looks to be holding the traditional fedora style hat. In the background you can see other people that the attacker has walked past. So no, not random, but targetted at those who are physically identifiable as orthodox Jewish males.

The third victim was his mate, who he stabbed earlier in the day. It perhaps didn't come to light until the police went to his house.

I find it very hard to believe this was anything other than an antisemitic attack. Which isn't to say there isn't a mental health component, but it isn't some random incident. He'd been referred to Prevent previously too.

Thank you for the timeline. The complaint in this case is why the third victim is being underreported. It does feed into the feeling that the antisemitic part is being magnified.

 

[briantrumpet]

Thank you for the timeline. The complaint in this case is why the third victim is being underreported. It does feed into the feeling that the antisemitic part is being magnified.

I don't doubt that the second and third victims were chosen because of their Jewishness (and my hunch is that he attacked his friend because the friend tried to dissuade him). So I'd be inclined not to disagree that the attack was antisemitic, but if it was born out of an individual warped mind and mental illness, rather than something coordinated, does the 'terrorism' charge stick?

Put another way, does a white thug killing black people because they are black mean it's automatically 'terrorism'?

 

[AuroraSaab]

Because, unfortunately, people stab people they know all the time. Far too often for it to be on the main news. They don't often travel to a specific area to stab a particular demographic.

Maybe his flatmate tried to stop him? Maybe it wasn't a bad wound, as there's nothing reported that his flatmate phoned either the police or an ambulance for himself.

I honestly don't think we'd be having a 'Was it actually racist tho'?' conversation if a white man, who'd stabbed his white flat mate, then travelled to an Asian area, stabbing only women in headscarves.

 

[CXRAndy]

Whataboutery from Brian

 

[C R]

Because, unfortunately, people stab people they know all the time. Far too often for it to be on the main news. They don't often travel to a specific area to stab a particular demographic.

Maybe his flatmate tried to stop him? Maybe it wasn't a bad wound, as there's nothing reported that his flatmate phoned either the police or an ambulance for himself.

I honestly don't think we'd be having a 'Was it actually racist tho'?' conversation if a white man, who'd stabbed his white flat mate, then travelled to an Asian area, stabbing only women in headscarves.

This is my last reply here, as it is off topic for the thread. In the hypothetical case of the white man, you wouldn't have the government using it as an excuse to ban Yaxley-Lenon's marches. That's my problem with the whole thing.

 

[Rusty Nails]

I hadn't heard about the third man until today. Was this just a run of the mill nutter that just provided the professional semites with ammunition?

Clutching at straws?

 

[Dorset Boy]

I don't doubt that the second and third victims were chosen because of their Jewishness (and my hunch is that he attacked his friend because the friend tried to dissuade him). So I'd be inclined not to disagree that the attack was antisemitic, but if it was born out of an individual warped mind and mental illness, rather than something coordinated, does the 'terrorism' charge stick?

Put another way, does a white thug killing black people because they are black mean it's automatically 'terrorism'?

It has been well reported that there has been a significant rise in attacks on Jews over the last couple of years to the point that, as I mentioned a couple of days ago, their communities are too scared to publicise community gatherings. And indeed, some are trying to hide their Jewish identities.

There is a lot of anti-Israeli and anti-jewish rhetoric going on amongst the pro-Palestine marchers, and there is a failure to distinguish between protesting against the actions of the Isreali state, and blaming British jews.

 

[Psamathe]

... and there is a failure to distinguish between protesting against the actions of the Isreali state, and blaming British jews.

I think Netanyahu (and some other Israeli politicians) significantly contribute to that by leaping on any criticism of their actions as "antisemitic". If they are continually conflating the two then it isn't surprising when everybody they are directing their pronouncement to listens (which one assumes is why they say it).

 

[Dorset Boy]

I think Netanyahu (and some other Israeli politicians) significantly contribute to that by leaping on any criticism of their actions as "antisemitic". If they are continually conflating the two then it isn't surprising when everybody they are directing their pronouncement to listens (which one assumes is why they say it).

But British Jews really have virtually nothing to do with the actions of the Israeli state, yet they are being attacked on a regular basis.

 

[Psamathe]

I think Netanyahu (and some other Israeli politicians) significantly contribute to that by leaping on any criticism of their actions as "antisemitic". If they are continually conflating the two then it isn't surprising when everybody they are directing their pronouncement to listens (which one assumes is why they say it).

But British Jews really have virtually nothing to do with the actions of the Israeli state, yet they are being attacked on a regular basis.

I wasn't suggesting it was right or that British Jews had anything to do with the Israeli state. Just that a significant contributor to conflating state nd religion comes from Netanyahu himself.

And when it's reported eg

Five elected representatives to the largest body representing British Jews [Board of Deputies] have been suspended for two years after criticising the Israeli government’s actions in Gaza. (from many mainstream press outlets eg https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...-jewish-body-suspended-over-israel-criticisms)

I can see how people are incorrectly perceiving the situation. I agree it's not right but I can see at least in part what is significantly contribution to the situation.

 

[briantrumpet]

It has been well reported that there has been a significant rise in attacks on Jews over the last couple of years to the point that, as I mentioned a couple of days ago, their communities are too scared to publicise community gatherings. And indeed, some are trying to hide their Jewish identities.

There is a lot of anti-Israeli and anti-jewish rhetoric going on amongst the pro-Palestine marchers, and there is a failure to distinguish between protesting against the actions of the Isreali state, and blaming British jews.

Yes, indeed, I'm certainly in no position to make comment on Jewish people's perception, and I'm quite sure that the worries are greatly heightened at the moment, justifiably.

In those circumstances, my comments are more about the semantics of what classifies as a 'terrorist incident' – but I think that a degree of collusion or similar is what 'defines' terrorism per se, even if actions by lone racist nutters does engender similar terror.

 

[Pross]

I think Netanyahu (and some other Israeli politicians) significantly contribute to that by leaping on any criticism of their actions as "antisemitic". If they are continually conflating the two then it isn't surprising when everybody they are directing their pronouncement to listens (which one assumes is why they say it).

It’s part of Netanyahu’s strategy to stir anti-Semitism globally much the same as the likes of Muslim extremist groups did. Perpetuate and widening division gets them more support.