Liverpool parade car incident

[spen666]

I see they didn’t proceed with the allegation of attempted murder, for which he was originally arrested.

BBC:

The 54-year-old admitted dangerous driving, affray, 17 charges of attempting to cause grievous bodily harm (GBH) with intent, nine counts of causing GBH with intent and three counts of wounding with intent.​

​

The Crown Prosecution Service said it was an "act of calculated violence" when Doyle drove into the crowd on the evening of the 26 May, injuring more than 130 people.​

Attempted Murder is one of the most difficult offences to prove - attempted GBH with intent carries same maximum penalty and is easier to prove. Attempted murder is something the prosecution try to avoid as there is another easier to prove offence to use

 

[Pross]

Attempted GBH with intent is an odd phrase, if you've attempted something then surely intent is already implied?

I thought he might argue that he made a wrong turn by mistake and then panicked when the crowd started attacking his car.

 

[CXRAndy]

Attempted GBH with intent is an odd phrase, if you've attempted something then surely intent is already implied?

Not necessarily.

Imagine, you got into a fight, and caused GBH on the other person


You started out with no intent to cause GBH

 

[matticus]

Attempted GBH with intent is an odd phrase, if you've attempted something then surely intent is already implied?

I'm a bit baffled too! This page seems to explain it (at some length) caveat emptor of course:
https://adleygray.com/what-constitutes-gbh-with-intent-in-the-uk/
What’s the Difference Between GBH and GBH with Intent?
GBH is a form of assault where someone deliberately causes another person really serious physical injury. GBH with intent to cause serious bodily harm is an even more serious crime than GBH and is usually committed with the aim of seriously harming the victim.

The main difference between GBH and GBH with intent is the intention behind the act. If someone is charged with GBH with intent, it usually means that the person who committed the act meant to cause harm. If someone is charged with GBH but didn’t have the intention of causing harm, it usually means that the person simply lost control and didn’t mean to cause harm.

 

[Ian H]

I'm a bit baffled too! This page seems to explain it (at some length) caveat emptor of course:
https://adleygray.com/what-constitutes-gbh-with-intent-in-the-uk/
What’s the Difference Between GBH and GBH with Intent?
GBH is a form of assault where someone deliberately causes another person really serious physical injury. GBH with intent to cause serious bodily harm is an even more serious crime than GBH and is usually committed with the aim of seriously harming the victim.

The main difference between GBH and GBH with intent is the intention behind the act. If someone is charged with GBH with intent, it usually means that the person who committed the act meant to cause harm. If someone is charged with GBH but didn’t have the intention of causing harm, it usually means that the person simply lost control and didn’t mean to cause harm.

I think the word they're searching for is premeditation.

 

[Pross]

I'm a bit baffled too! This page seems to explain it (at some length) caveat emptor of course:
https://adleygray.com/what-constitutes-gbh-with-intent-in-the-uk/
What’s the Difference Between GBH and GBH with Intent?
GBH is a form of assault where someone deliberately causes another person really serious physical injury. GBH with intent to cause serious bodily harm is an even more serious crime than GBH and is usually committed with the aim of seriously harming the victim.

The main difference between GBH and GBH with intent is the intention behind the act. If someone is charged with GBH with intent, it usually means that the person who committed the act meant to cause harm. If someone is charged with GBH but didn’t have the intention of causing harm, it usually means that the person simply lost control and didn’t mean to cause harm.

Yep, but if you follow that through the attempted bit would surely automatically come into effect i.e. you couldn't have attempted GBH as by the very nature of attempting to cause GBH you are showing the intent so you either drop the attempted or the intent part? Also, in this case surely he actually caused GBH rather than just attempting to do so or did none of the injured meet the threshold for "serious injury"?

 

[spen666]

Yep, but if you follow that through the attempted bit would surely automatically come into effect i.e. you couldn't have attempted GBH as by the very nature of attempting to cause GBH you are showing the intent so you either drop the attempted or the intent part? Also, in this case surely he actually caused GBH rather than just attempting to do so or did none of the injured meet the threshold for "serious injury"?

Think you are mistaken in your logic and getting to hung up on words and confusing attempt and intent.

Take muder - as the offence - you would presumably accept it is possible to attempt to murder someone. Murder requires "malice aforethought" ie intent
for example if I get a gun with the intention of killing you. I fire the gun at you, but as I am a crap marksman I miss you with the shot. That is still attempted murder as I with malice aforethought ( ie intent) attempted to kill you

Same with GBH with intent - eg I get a car and drive it at you intending to cause you really serious harm, but whether by luck or lack of driving ability I fail to cause you serious harm and you suffer no or minor injuries, I would still be guilty of Attempted GBH with intent
I attempted to cause you really serious injury (GBH) and the intent is proved by the fact I got a motor vehicle to do it with ( ie the intent)


If I punch you in a pub after you insult me and cause really serious harm, that is GBH and not GBH with intent as I had a momentary loss of control and did not form the necessary intent to cause you really serious harm. If however after you insult me, I pick up a bottle, smash it and hit you with it, then that would be GBH with intent, or if fortunately you were able to avoid my use of the bottle, it would be an attempted GBH with intent

 

[bobzmyunkle]

I had a momentary loss of control

I pick up a bottle, smash it and hit you with it, then that would be GBH with intent,

Could you not pick up the bottle whilst having a momentary loss of control?

 

[spen666]

Could you not pick up the bottle whilst having a momentary loss of control?

you have gone beyond a momentary loss of control if you pick up bottle, then break it then use it