newfhouse
pleb
Not the gag itself but the discussion around it has taught me the word ”Sinti” which I don’t recall hearing before.
Maureen Lipman: Cancel culture could wipe out comedy
- Thread starter Fab Foodie
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OP
OP
Fab Foodie
Guru
Yep, me too.
Ian H
Legendary Member
I think that can be filed under 'unintended consequences', so Carr doesn't deserve credit for it.
I don't recall ever being taught such things, but I have read enough history to be aware that all 'inferior races' were targetted. The objective after all was to ensure the dominance of the Aryan super-race.
dutchguylivingintheuk
Über Member
It's interesting to see how many comedian's have come into trouble after this topic started about Maureen Lipman. The ADL even changes their description of racism from ''the marginalization and/or oppression of people of color based on a socially constructed racial hierarchy that privileges white people.” to “Racism occurs when individuals or institutions show more favorable evaluation or treatment of an individual or group based on race or ethnicity,” it an interim defenition so in about an half year they will change it to glorified white person racism again, just as their system/institutional racism definition still is. All after Whoopi Goldberg comments where explained in the wrong way.
But is indeed true unless you're and scared comedian that uses an whole list of topics and words to avoid you're bound to get canceled sometime
But is indeed true unless you're and scared comedian that uses an whole list of topics and words to avoid you're bound to get canceled sometime
dutchguylivingintheuk
Über Member
In some countries they don't discus the holocaust in school anymore because some students gets antisemitism from home so the teacher can do his job.
But the do shout ''Free palestine'' at every occasion..
Amazing when freedom of speech works the way it isn't intended right?
winjim
Welcome yourself into the new modern crisis
There's an interesting heirarchy at work here. The buildup to the joke is about Jews. We know that there have been a ton of antisemitic Holocaust jokes told over the years, and I think we can all agree that that's unacceptable. Then the punchline to the joke is that there are minority groups which we as a society consider it acceptable to mock, and one of those is Gypsies. Turns out that's now a bit out of date. We're kind of on the fence with it, we laugh but we know that we probably shouldn't, which is the point of most of Carr's humour.
The postscript to the joke mentions other minority groups, homosexuals, the disabled and Jehovah's Witnesses. Now I don't think that Carr would have dared use either gays or the disabled as the punchline to the original joke, whereas maybe thirty years ago or so, that might have been the case. As a society we have by now decided that mocking those groups is wrong. However, Carr then finishes off the routine by riffing further on the JWs, having them knock on the door of the death camps, and nobody has said a thing about that. Absolutely no commentary that I have read regarding the joke has even mentioned them. So, it seems that JWs are still considered fair game by our society when it comes to making Holocaust jokes. Someone's got to be at the bottom I suppose.
The postscript to the joke mentions other minority groups, homosexuals, the disabled and Jehovah's Witnesses. Now I don't think that Carr would have dared use either gays or the disabled as the punchline to the original joke, whereas maybe thirty years ago or so, that might have been the case. As a society we have by now decided that mocking those groups is wrong. However, Carr then finishes off the routine by riffing further on the JWs, having them knock on the door of the death camps, and nobody has said a thing about that. Absolutely no commentary that I have read regarding the joke has even mentioned them. So, it seems that JWs are still considered fair game by our society when it comes to making Holocaust jokes. Someone's got to be at the bottom I suppose.
D
Deleted member 28
Guest
I think there's a distinct difference between persecution and being the butt of a joke, I think in the right situation nothing should be off limits.
swansonj
Regular
I wasn't as aware as I should have been that JW's were a specific persecuted group. I learn from Wikipedia that it was because they refused to pledge allegiance to the Nazi party or serve in the military, something they were more consistent at than other religious groups - credit to them.
I am intrigued to see that the Wikipedia consensus seems to be to limit the term "holocaust" to Jews, and refer to the other victims as "holocaust-era persecutions/genocide".
I am intrigued to see that the Wikipedia consensus seems to be to limit the term "holocaust" to Jews, and refer to the other victims as "holocaust-era persecutions/genocide".
winjim
Welcome yourself into the new modern crisis
I think that the term 'holocaust' has a specific meaning in Judaism which predates the Nazi atrocities. Some sort of sacrifice maybe? I could be wrong.
matticus
Guru
EDIt:
Yes, seems pretty well-explained here:
https://www.britannica.com/story/what-is-the-origin-of-the-term-holocaust
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OP
OP
Fab Foodie
Guru
No, but I think they should be...that's how I remembers....
icowden
Legendary Member
According to google:
Etymologically it comes from Greek though "Burned whole" via Latin then French.
swansonj
Regular
I find Henning Wehn moderately funny. But part of his act is to toy with German stereotypes and UK attitudes to Germany. He did a joke recently about the French propensity to surrender, and he's done ones about the war, and didn't he allegedly do a joke about a concentration camp that hinged on the revelation that the person was a guard not a victim? He could argue that he is testing limits, exploring prejudices, exposing hypocrisy etc. I just find them all a bit uncomfortable.
