Maureen Lipman: Cancel culture could wipe out comedy

[theclaud]

If he'd then challenged the audience on why they were laughing, something positive might have resulted.

Hear that applause? That’s what I like. I’m not interested in laughs. I prefer applause.
“Is it supposed to be funny?” That’s what the critics say. No it isn’t. I’m not interested in laughs. I’m interested in…
People say, “Did you see Stewart Lee?” “Yeah.” “Was it funny?” “No, but I agreed the fuck out of it.”

 

[icowden]

Really? You honestly think people in Carr's audience (I'm guessing, but I reckon they are reasonably well-educated on average) were unlikely to know that Germans* murdered gypsies and other minority groups in the Holocaust as well as Jews before he told that joke?

Well yes. The common knowledge of the Holocaust is that it was persecution of the Jews. I would imagine that most people were unaware of the other persecuted minorities and the scale of it until Carr's controversy.

 

[Ian H]

Hear that applause? That’s what I like. I’m not interested in laughs. I prefer applause.
“Is it supposed to be funny?” That’s what the critics say. No it isn’t. I’m not interested in laughs. I’m interested in…
People say, “Did you see Stewart Lee?” “Yeah.” “Was it funny?” “No, but I agreed the fuck out of it.”

Why did I write 'laughing'? I meant applause. Senility settling in I think.

 

[theclaud]

Well yes. The common knowledge of the Holocaust is that it was persecution of the Jews. I would imagine that most people were unaware of the other persecuted minorities and the scale of it until Carr's controversy.

We could do a quick straw poll here. Hands up if Carr's gag has taught you anything you didn't already know.

 

[icowden]

We could do a quick straw poll here. Hands up if Carr's gag has taught you anything you didn't already know.

✋

 

[winjim]

Hear that applause? That’s what I like. I’m not interested in laughs. I prefer applause.
“Is it supposed to be funny?” That’s what the critics say. No it isn’t. I’m not interested in laughs. I’m interested in…
People say, “Did you see Stewart Lee?” “Yeah.” “Was it funny?” “No, but I agreed the fuck out of it.”

Hang on, I recognise that joke. So John Oliver's been plagiarising Stewart Lee? Or has my memory completely gone to shoot?

 

[theclaud]

Possible thread drift alert, but as most people are probably aware it was Holocaust Memorial day a week or so ago. I watched two different things on the subject on subsequent nights. The first, Final Account, was an extraordinary, fascinating, and painful Storyville documentary in which a filmmaker whose grandparents were killed in the Holocaust interviews the last surviving witnesses, bystanders and run-of-the-mill perpetrators. You can watch it here. The second was a film I had long heard of but never seen, called The Boy in the Striped Pyjamas - probably the most grotesque movie I have seen in decades; an obscenely sentimental rationalisation of the myth that people didn't know. I don't really know where I'm going with this, except that it's so appaliing that Carr making an offensive joke looks a non-event in comparison to a public service broadcaster deciding to screen this dross on HMD. But it doesn't seem to have hit the Twitter outrage threshold.

 

[theclaud]

Hang on, I recognise that joke. So John Oliver's been plagiarising Stewart Lee? Or has my memory completely gone to shoot?

Don't know TBH - only seen Lee do it.

 

[winjim]

Don't know TBH - only seen Lee do it.

It might have been Oliver quoting one of his own reviews IIRC. Exact same phrasing though.

 

[BoldonLad]

We could do a quick straw poll here. Hands up if Carr's gag has taught you anything you didn't already know.

No hands up here. I already knew that the killings extended to groups other than Jews, although, I think I am right in saying the Jews were the biggest single group.

 

[matticus]

The second was a film I had long heard of but never seen, called The Boy in the Striped Pyjamas - probably the most grotesque movie I have seen in decades; an obscenely sentimental rationalisation of the myth that people didn't know.

Your words are a little ... stronger than those I saw 2 weeks ago, but there are certainly people who object to teaching the Holocaust to kids using that film. (I quite liked it at the time. It wasn't a hard, factual history, and I didn't view it as such. )

<quick google ...>

https://mediachomp.com/the-banning-of-maus-and-the-pajamification-of-literature/

Personally I think 'Pyjamas was suited to younger kinds than either Maus or Schindlers List. But I'm not teaching kids history, so I might be wrong.
If I'm *right* then you could reasonably use all 3 works.

 

[Bromptonaut]

We could do a quick straw poll here. Hands up if Carr's gag has taught you anything you didn't already know.

No, well aware. OTOH it's value if looked at as exposing UK government's attempts to outlaw the traveller lifestyle might score some points.

 

[matticus]

Really? You honestly think people in Carr's audience (I'm guessing, but I reckon they are reasonably well-educated on average) were unlikely to know that Germans* murdered gypsies and other minority groups in the Holocaust as well as Jews before he told that joke?

A lot more people have read the quote* than were actually paying to watch Carr. THAT is what I meant by raising awareness.

(*or watched the clip)

Straw Poll Answer:
I've discussed the holocaust with a number of colleagues in the last few years (e.g. East European immigrants, and ex-military guys). So I may be more aware of historical details than I was 10 years ago.
I don't recall school mentioning the other groups; but then I forgot a lot of things I was taught back then...

 

[icowden]

A lot more people have read the quote* than were actually paying to watch Carr. THAT is what I meant by raising awareness.

(*or watched the clip)

I think a lot of people have only read the paraphrased version of the quote, which isn't the same thing.

 

[matticus]

I think a lot of people have only read the paraphrased version of the quote, which isn't the same thing.

Pretty sure both could be true.

anyway; the only problem with the paraphrased version is that it puts Carr in a worse light; it still raises awareness of the persecution of Roma.