Nicola Sturgeon and Transgender Prisoners

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BoldonLad

Old man on a bike. Not a member of a clique.
Location
South Tyneside
As a fan of Nicola Sturgeon, just watched her on ITV news, first time I have seen her rattled in any interview.
 
 

multitool

Pharaoh
It’s almost as if she’s not the absolutist her detractors would like her to be, isn’t it?

They are all over twitter getting a hardon over this interview (and, it would appear, here as well).

Which is odd, because what Sturgeon is saying is pretty clear and consistent. But not to the People's Front of Judea it seems. The truth is Sturgeon just stole their thunder.
 
It’s almost as if she’s not the absolutist her detractors would like her to be, isn’t it?

Wasn't she pretty absolutist until last week's debacle? Otherwise why were prisoners like Katie Dolatowski in a women's prison long before this recent case?

Where we seem to be now is that you can decide your gender, until you commit a crime, then the government will decide for you.

Hard to see this as anything other than backtracking. If it leads to a genuine, thorough review of the policy though we should all welcome it.
 

Unkraut

Master of the Inane Comment
Location
Germany
Where we seem to be now is that you can decide your gender, until you commit a crime, then the government will decide for you.

The incoherence (it's that word again) seems to me to be claiming 'transwomen are women' and as such should have full access to women's sports etc. whilst simultaneously treating them as not being women when it comes to prison sentences for violent crimes.

Isn't the truth of it that when push comes to shove and safety is at stake transwomen are not in fact women.
 

multitool

Pharaoh
The incoherence (it's that word again) seems to me to be claiming 'transwomen are women' and as such should have full access to women's sports etc. whilst simultaneously treating them as not being women when it comes to prison sentences for violent crimes.

Isn't the truth of it that when push comes to shove and safety is at stake transwomen are not in fact women.

Not sure why you insist on simplistic answers to something that is necessarily complex.

It's pretty obvious that if you stand a trans woman next to a cis woman she is not 'the same' in every sense. Or indeed a trans man next to a cis man. The 'phobes have this pretence that there is a pretence that they are. Even the language denotes a difference. Trans women refer to themselves as 'trans women', and not just 'women'.

Clearly what the current debates are about (amongst the grown-ups, not the 'phobes) is to how trans people can be accommodated in law and in practice with their preferred gender, and where exceptions must apply so as not to conflict with cis women's rights. You mention sports, there are already exceptions in place, as there have always been with regard to trans women prisoners.

The current prison system is, when you look at the actual truth, and not the Daily Mail truth, very rational, but that doesn't mean that problems will not arise because prisons are, by nature, problematic.
 
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Even the language denotes a difference. Trans women refer to themselves as 'trans women', and not just 'women'.

This is simply not true. Transactivists have had an active campaign to not differentiate between women and transwomen in language. To say 'women and transwomen' is unacceptable to them. They are seeking to expand what the word 'woman' means in order to include men who wish they weren't women, rather than expand the word 'men' to include non conforming men.

Nor is saying the obvious 'women and transmen' acceptable. Which is why we've ended up with medical info saying the ridiculous 'vulva owners' and 'people who have periods' instead.

You mention sports, there are already exceptions in place, as there have always been with regard to trans women prisoners.

Yes, and transactivists have been pretty successful in overturning these exceptions in many individual sports, as they have with prisons. And they continue to press for inclusion in the female category despite overwhelming evidence of retained male advantage.

It's been going on for years behind the scenes. It's not until there's very obvious high level cases like Laurel Hubbard or the recent Scottish cases that most people are even aware.

This reminds me a bit of Biden. He's 100% all in on the gender stuff but when it came to the military regulations on conscription, all of a sudden they knew who was male and who was female. It goes on birth sex and transwomen will be drafted with the other men.

(Edited to add last para)
 
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Weird. I've yet to hear a trans woman say "I'm not a trans woman, I'm a woman".

View: https://twitter.com/IndiaWilloughby/status/1620256351837646848?s=20&t=3fR3tI62j5bVCC-cFqS_zw


India is not just a woman. India is a female.

Screenshot_20230131-162827_Chrome.jpg


Screenshot_20230131-162903_Chrome.jpg
 

multitool

Pharaoh
She calls herself a trans woman all the time. She advocates for trans rights, not women's rights. Let's not go down a rabbit hole of sheer stupidity.
 
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India Willoughby doesn't differentiate between herself and women. I think you are being a bit naive if you think that transactivism is willing to cede that there should be a distinction between women and transwomen in any meaningful way.

The mantra is TWAW 'Trans Women Are Women'. I've never seen a placard with TWATW on it. If transactivists were willing to accept there was a difference we wouldn't have nonsense like 'People who have periods'. It would say 'Women and transmen who have periods...'

Nicole Sturgeon tried to go down the 'They are women... but they're not the same' route in that interview. It's utterly illogical and incoherent.

Fnu0uVSXEAIRpvu.jpeg
 
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icowden

Legendary Member
"Alsations are dogs."
NO THEY ARE ALSATIONS!!!!
Not withstanding that they are Alsatians and not Alsations, Alsatians can refer to both dogs and people, so your statement doesn't work on multiple levels.

Also, presumably the corollary is "transwomen are women." - NO THEY ARE TRANSWOMEN.

DOn't have a problem with that myself. They do though.
 
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