No Shamima Begum Thread?

[AndyRM]

That's true and many of those who travelled to there. But we do at times convict people of murder if there is enough evidence but no body, Isis wasn't exactly shy of sharing details, said descriptions as in their duties of making suicide vest, recruiting etc. etc. where litterly in their glossy Dabiq magazine. So it's a it more then ''someone said''

It was also in their magazine and in the various interview's they gave. If she didn't take part she would be death.

Dabiq was a propaganda magazine, so very much just "someone said".

 

[theclaud]

If she didn't take part she would be death.

Assuming idiot boy here means "killed", and that the whole thing is not utter bollocks anyway (big leap, I know), he's describing forced participation or coercion anyway.

 

[ebikeerwidnes]

Assuming idiot boy here means "killed", and that the whole thing is not utter bollocks anyway (big leap, I know), he's describing forced participation or coercion anyway.

Exactly
so either this is a very good excuse which would be difficult to counter

or it is a reason to find her not guilty of doing whatever she did as there was a threat of death - or worse - if she didn;t

either way - no basis for abandoning her in a camp supported by organisations that have enough problems without looking after someone who should be over here in one of our jails at our expense

I suspect she was - at least at the start - doing things that she could be found guilty of but I have seen nothing even slightly like proof good enough for a court

 

[spen666]

.....

I suspect she was - at least at the start - doing things that she could be found guilty of but I have seen nothing even slightly like proof good enough for a court

It is irrelevant if you or I have seen such evidence.

Parts of the evidence would not be aired in public as it may risk either national security or individuals lives, eg informants etc.

Its a bit of a pointless argument as we do not know all the facts and therefore can't make a judgement on what should be done. Not ideal situation in culture of open justice, but not sure what other way there is when dealing with matters of national security

 

[dutchguylivingintheuk]

Dabiq was a propaganda magazine, so very much just "someone said".

No, yes propaganda but also confirming what others have said. so that's not the same as 'someone said'

Assuming idiot boy here means "killed", and that the whole thing is not utter bollocks anyway (big leap, I know), he's describing forced participation or coercion anyway.

the biggest idiot needs to look in the mirror instead of the animated gif pile, however 'killed' is nit-picking and in fact exactly what i said. so you just tried to piss a bit futher without making an actual point.

Exactly
so either this is a very good excuse which would be difficult to counter


or it is a reason to find her not guilty of doing whatever she did as there was a threat of death - or worse - if she didn;t

Depends on how much evidence there is showing how much she knew before traveling to Syria.(and yes there is evidence they where informed before they went, in fact it was part of the recruitment process.
She clearly had no choice once there but she did make an choice to put herself into that situation.

either way - no basis for abandoning her in a camp supported by organisations that have enough problems without looking after someone who should be over here in one of our jails at our expense

The argument for taking her passport is national security, but i agree then should have all been tried in somekind of international tribunal right there and then, just check everyone at the borders keep terrorist in let all others out. But we didn't do that and now where here

I suspect she was - at least at the start - doing things that she could be found guilty of but I have seen nothing even slightly like proof good enough for a court

We simply don't know 1. evidence gathering is kid of flawed, secondly prosecution is not going to show their evidence publicly.

 

[AndyRM]

No, yes propaganda but also confirming what others have said. so that's not the same as 'someone said'

That's exactly what propaganda is... Well, part of it anyway.

 

[AuroraSaab]

She's not the only British woman in the camps so I think part of it might be that there are women there with husbands and families and if you let the women and children back to the UK, what do you do about their non Brit jihadi husbands? It would be a whole new can of worms no government wants to open.

 

[Bromptonaut]

She's not the only British woman in the camps so I think part of it might be that there are women there with husbands and families and if you let the women and children back to the UK, what do you do about their non Brit jihadi husbands? It would be a whole new can of worms no government wants to open.

If you start from a premise that they are living as free people in Syria but with a jihadi cloud over the husbands how would it work?

I suspect that if the kids are, or are eligible for, citizenship or at least a right to reside in the UK then they and their Mother could come to the UK.

Husbands would need a spousal visa and I suspect they'd not get one.

If these British women were released from the camps then I think same principle would apply.

What defines Begum as different is that her citizenship could be, and was, removed. If the others are straightforward UK citizens in same way as my kids, with no loophole to allow their citizenship to be revoked, then I think they can come but are likely to be arrested immediately on arrival.

 

[AuroraSaab]

I wouldn't assume that they are free to travel with their children without permission from their husband/children's father. Which might not be forthcoming if he can't come too.

 

[Bromptonaut]

I wouldn't assume that they are free to travel with their children without permission from their husband/children's father. Which might not be forthcoming if he can't come too.

Fair enough but that wasn't the question I was answering.