Non-binary: What do you understand it to mean?

[AuroraSaab]

Impossible, I'd say. If we could tell for sure who the good guys are there wouldn't be 50k rapes a year in the UK.

If your female colleagues have consented to allowing their colleague, your friend, to use the women's facilities that's a decision they have made by concensus in a particular circumstance. It doesn't mean they would extend that to any male that they don't know.

Perhaps it's the attitude of men that needs to change. If they were more tolerant of their gender non conforming brethren then women wouldn't have to move over and give up their spaces.

 

[Deleted member 28]

WTF? Some bumph I've been sent recently, not that you need telling but for the pedantry out there " born with a Cervix " Women then?

 

[Bromptonaut]

@shep it may come as a surprise but some trans men still have a cervix just the transwomen @AuroraSaab is concerned about still have penises.

 

[AuroraSaab]

WTF? Some bumph I've been sent recently, not that you need telling but for the pedantry out there " born with a Cervix " Women then? View attachment 209

I don't mind that. Or 'Women and transmen' would be fine too. It's the erasure of the word woman and sex specific language altogether that's a bigger issue.

Cervix havers, vulva owners, birthing bodies, front hole ... isn't inclusive language, it's dehumanising language.

 

[Deleted member 28]

@shep it may come as a surprise but some trans men still have a cervix just the transwomen @AuroraSaab is concerned about still have penises.

What comes as a surprise to me is the fact that Women can't be described as, well Women, and there has to be some bullshit caveat attached in case someone gets offended. Or have I got it all wrong?

 

[Bromptonaut]

Or have I got it all wrong?

Yes.

 

[Deleted member 28]

Yes.

And happy to have done so. 👍

 

[Deleted member 28]

@shep it may come as a surprise but some trans men still have a cervix just the transwomen @AuroraSaab is concerned about still have penises.

I thought Science had proven you can't change your sex, according to the posts on this very forum, so whatever you think you are it doesn't matter surely?

 

[PK99]

For what it's worth, I don't think that any of the other women at work are particularly bothered by Joan or her use of the facilities. I acknowledge that I may not be aware of every whispered conversation between my female colleagues, but the general vibe is generous and supportive.

I think there is an essential element that distinguishes the case of the specific, John/Joan, of an existing member of a community, from the general case of an unknown male-bodied stranger identifying as a trans woman and demanding equal access to women's spaces, that @AuroraSaab is addressing.

 

[newfhouse]

I think there is an essential element that distinguishes the case of the specific, John/Joan, of an existing member of a community, from the general case of an unknown male-bodied stranger identifying as a trans woman and demanding equal access to women's spaces, that @AuroraSaab is addressing.

Yes, I think you’re right. My aim was to explore whether hard and fast rules start to look a bit clumsy and unnecessarily discriminatory once they encounter the realities of everyday life.

 

[PK99]

Yes, I think you’re right. My aim was to explore whether hard and fast rules start to look a bit clumsy and unnecessarily discriminatory once they encounter the realities of everyday life.

That could be strucured in a different way:

whether local experienced-based acceptance can look naive and dangerous once transposed into the realities of everyday life.

 

[Rusty Nails]

Yes, I think you’re right. My aim was to explore whether hard and fast rules start to look a bit clumsy and unnecessarily discriminatory once they encounter the realities of everyday life.

Or clumsy and necessarily discriminatory if they encounter the everyday life reality of the concerns of many women about sharing of women's spaces.

That is one of the problems of hard and fast rules.....if they are not hard and fast they tend to become guidelines rather than rules.

 

[newfhouse]

Time will tell, I guess. There are neighbouring jurisdictions that have chosen to go down the self identity route so perhaps we should wait and see how things work out for them.

 

[Julia9054]

I thought Science had proven you can't change your sex, according to the posts on this very forum, so whatever you think you are it doesn't matter surely?

The literature you refer to encourages people to go for cervical screening. Cervical screening is important. Mostly women - obviously - but also non binary people and trans men who have not had surgery. Many women (who are completely happy with the genitals they were born with) find going for cervical screening difficult. I can only imagine how much more difficult it must be for people who’s “insides” don’t match their outsides. Anything that encourages, supports, includes and removes barriers for anyone who needs this service has to be a good thing. Notice it still uses the word women - important for some women - though it would bother me unduly if it didn’t.
In this country, we have cervical screening at the GP, usually done by the practice nurse. This is good because you could be seeing her for any reason - the rest of the waiting room doesn’t know. In other countries you go to a gynaecologist which must be very difficult if externally you look male.

 

[Deleted member 28]

The literature you refer to encourages people to go for cervical screening. Cervical screening is important. Mostly women - obviously - but also non binary people and trans men who have not had surgery. Many women (who are completely happy with the genitals they were born with) find going for cervical screening difficult. I can only imagine how much more difficult it must be for people who’s “insides” don’t match their outsides. Anything that encourages, supports, includes and removes barriers for anyone who needs this service has to be a good thing. Notice it still uses the word women - important for some women - though it would bother me unduly if it didn’t.
In this country, we have cervical screening at the GP, usually done by the practice nurse. This is good because you could be seeing her for any reason - the rest of the waiting room doesn’t know. In other countries you go to a gynaecologist which must be very difficult if externally you look male.

Thanks for the info, so it's Women who now dress like Men and the one's who can't make their minds up?