Offshore wind is going well

[ebikeerwidnes]

https://www.theguardian.com/busines...-wind-auction-bidders-government-energy-bills


It is almost like the government has cocked it up and demanded too much

 

[Fab Foodie]

https://www.theguardian.com/busines...-wind-auction-bidders-government-energy-bills


It is almost like the government has cocked it up and demanded too much

The sadiM government, everything gold they touch turns to shoot....

 

[BoldonLad]

I see we are back to the "hardworking families" soundbite

 

[ebikeerwidnes]

Seems like they even manage to screw up the easy wins!

 

[Once a Wheeler]

What's more, wind requires grid-scale battery backup and therein lies another set of dangers waiting to happen. At least one member of parliament is on the case but the dangers clearly have not yet hit the public's awareness:

• A battery fire can produce a cloud of dangerous gas—hydrogen fluoride, methane and carbon monoxide. If the vapour cloud from a battery fire meets an ignition point, it can explode, as happened in Arizona in 2019; fire officers tackling that battery fire suffered life-changing injuries when the unit exploded. That fire was far from unique. Thermal runaway events occur in almost every country in which battery storage is used.

She is talking about lithium-ion batteries here, maybe we should be looking for some other technology to keep our green credentials green.

 

[albion]

Worst case is any that use used Lithium Ion.

Thankfully, that chemistry is now being abandoned in large storage devices.

 

[Mr Celine]

What's more, wind requires grid-scale battery backup ....

... because the wind speed is always the same everywhere. If it's a flat calm in Westminster it must be the same everywhere else, so installing turbines near Richmond or anywhere else is futile.

 

[ebikeerwidnes]

... because the wind speed is always the same everywhere. If it's a flat calm in Westminster it must be the same everywhere else, so installing turbines near Richmond or anywhere else is futile.

To be fair - although it clearly does vary dramatically over the country - more than a lot of countries despite our small size

but it is quite common for very calm conditions to settle over most of the country at the same time, especially in summer

so there do need to be backup plans for this
but normally it does vary - which suggest that the best plan is for them to be spread over the whole country - even the Tory voting green rolling hills of posh-shire! (Bruce can use them to wee on!!!)

 

[Mr Celine]

To be fair - although it clearly does vary dramatically over the country - more than a lot of countries despite our small size

but it is quite common for very calm conditions to settle over most of the country at the same time, especially in summer

so there do need to be backup plans for this
but normally it does vary - which suggest that the best plan is for them to be spread over the whole country - even the Tory voting green rolling hills of posh-shire! (Bruce can use them to wee on!!!)

Or alternatively we need to upgrade the interconnectors so we can import more power during the rare periods when large anticyclones cover the whole country and export more of the surplus at other times.

 

[Bromptonaut]

Right now we're getting about 12% from wind and about the same from solar.

 

[presta]

This was on Radio 4 last week and they were saying the same as the Guardian, it's nothing to do with storage, the reason they won't bid is that HMG won't pay them enough for the electricity. The £60/MWh that they're being offered for the electricity is half what fossil fuel costs, so the true cost of wind power is still by far the cheaper, but HMG refuse to increase the price. It makes me wonder if they're deliberately trying to sabotage the process, and make it look like the wind power industry's fault.

 

[BoldonLad]

This was on Radio 4 last week and they were saying the same as the Guardian, it's nothing to do with storage, the reason they won't bid is that HMG won't pay them enough for the electricity. The £60/MWh that they're being offered for the electricity is half what fossil fuel costs, so the true cost of wind power is still by far the cheaper, but HMG refuse to increase the price. It makes me wonder if they're deliberately trying to sabotage the process, and make it look like the wind power industry's fault.

Isn't this flawed logic? If it really is only half the cost, wouldn't the generators be all for it, they could charge consumers (say) 25% less, boost profits by 25% for the shareholders and CEO, everybody wins?

 

[presta]

Isn't this flawed logic? If it really is only half the cost, wouldn't the generators be all for it, they could charge consumers (say) 25% less, boost profits by 25% for the shareholders and CEO, everybody wins?

The £60/MWh is the government guarantee that ensures a viable price if the market price falls, otherwise companies won't take the risk of investing. At the moment it's not enough to ensure that they won't make a loss, even though there's ample room to increase it, so they're not taking the risk.

They're so obviously shooting themselves in the foot it's difficult not to think there's some sort of agenda from the climate change deniers at work.

 

[BoldonLad]

The £60/MWh is the government guarantee that ensures a viable price if the market price falls, otherwise companies won't take the risk of investing. At the moment it's not enough to ensure that they won't make a loss, even though there's ample room to increase it, so they're not taking the risk.

They're so obviously shooting themselves in the foot it's difficult not to think there's some sort of agenda from the climate change deniers at work.

OK. I get the £60/MWh now.

Who are you saying are shooting themselves in the foot, Government or Energy Providers? On past performance, I would rather trust the forecast of the Energy Providers than I would this Government, or, indeed, any Government in my lifetime.

 

[the snail]

OK. I get the £60/MWh now.

Who are you saying are shooting themselves in the foot, Government or Energy Providers? On past performance, I would rather trust the forecast of the Energy Providers than I would this Government, or, indeed, any Government in my lifetime.

The government. The price they are offerering is too low, that's why nobody even bothered to bid for the contracts.