OP
OP
newfhouse
pleb
Left-ing media and Rees Mogg.
Is it possible that people just want to see some due process?
Rees Mogg
- Thread starter newfhouse
- Start date
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Left-ing media and Rees Mogg.
Is it possible that people just want to see some due process?
dutchguylivingintheuk
Über Member
Specially for you i edited the post, bit nit picking isn't it?
dutchguylivingintheuk
Über Member
Rees mogg just agreed about getting her back to the uk apperently or at least agreed with part or whole of that article. If i say left wing media i mean left media in the uk and elsewhere in europe doing exactly the same thing. Ironcally just how Isis predicted it would go in their English written magazine. (or recruitment tool)
OP
OP
newfhouse
pleb
Do you think fair trials are important?
Bromptonaut
Rohan Man
- Location
- Bugbrooke, Northants
I don't think the edit clarifies the original word soup.
dutchguylivingintheuk
Über Member
Absolutely but in this case i think the right of the victims left or more important than the offenders getting an nice warm and comfortable cell, if they get an jail sentence at all. Or to have them cry crocodile tears in the media.
So yes they might not get an trial like it is in the uk, or everywhere else in europe, but hey they joined and organization wanting to destroy Europe just for that values so what exactly is the problem? They surely didn't see the problem during bataclan, christmass days attacks ariane grande concert, attacks on the Belgium airport or the thousands of people they killed in Syria and Iraq.
So yes fair trials absolutely that why i'm arguing they should stand trail there here the most heinous crimes happened, in Iraq and Syria. because right now the picture the victims get it that the offenders get rewarded.
OP
OP
newfhouse
pleb
That’s a “no” then.
dutchguylivingintheuk
Über Member
it not a yes or not question, but i stand by what i said before, the full thing not your selective quotes.
OP
OP
newfhouse
pleb
So you favour fair trials unless you have decided the accused is already guilty? Is that right?
dutchguylivingintheuk
Über Member
No i have explained my position two times now, it does not include me deciding who's guilty or not.
OP
OP
newfhouse
pleb
So without any sort of trial you have decided she is involved in all these crimes. Bizarre.
glasgowcyclist
Über Member
dutchguylivingintheuk
Über Member
Not at all, i just find it highly unlikely she would be an innocent bystander, is a bit the same a being an Russian solder in those unit that are accused of raping and murdering civilians, but if an court in the area where the remaining victims can testify clear her so be it. I wish her luck with her newly acquired stateless position(as her british passport is stripped and the other country doesn't want her)
I have made no secret of how i think about persons like this, and how i i'm convinced there lying about everything, an how i oppose how they get to give interviews in the media sweep their street clean and get to portray themselves as victims.
However that does not take away that i also feel they should be tried in front of a court right there an then.(that what i also said in the bit you left out) And that is a very acceptable practice, if i travel to the Us/Germany/any other place and i commit crimes there i will be arrested and tried right there and then. only after conviction i can apply for transfered to my country of birth if they have an agreement with the country of offending. Why should it be any different for potential serial killers?
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Bromptonaut
Rohan Man
- Location
- Bugbrooke, Northants
She seems to have gone there to be a brood mare, or more prosaically, to get laid. So far as I can see there's no evidence of her committing or aiding abetting outrages.
If she's to be charged with murder, or any other offence like helping make suicide vests, then there needs to be evidence. It's nowhere near sufficient to say she must have been involved. Neither is she guilty unless there are witnesses to acquit; that's simply not how it works.
She was almost certainly groomed to go out there while under the age of consent and with the intention the male fighters would have sex with her. It is, to say the least, a bit odd that those shouting longest and loudest about other girls groomed for sex are so keen to let this victim rot in Syria.
The removal of her citizenship was a stunt by a Home Secretary with Leadership ambitions and done at a time of day to catch the morning headlines.
glasgowcyclist
Über Member
With an attitude like yours, I sincerely hope you are never called for jury service.
If she committed crimes in England, and joining a proscribed terrorist organisation is just one charge she could face, then she should be tried in England. These offences would necessarily have occurred prior to her travelling to Syria so let’s try her for these first.
She could easily be returned for trial but that would necessitate reinstating her UK citizenship which would require a reversal of a publicity stunt by the then Home Secretary which will be far too embarrassing for HMG. Removing her citizenship wasn’t the big ‘up yours’ that Sajid Javid thought it was. It was a win for Daesh who want to dismantle our democracy and human rights though their terrorism. Javid has played into their hands and shown that they can corrupt our normal judicial process and right to a fair trial.
The terrorists are extremely well-practised and adept at online recruitment of young people. They target them for their naïveté and ease of manipulation. In the month after Begum and her friends flew to Syria, several other children at the same school who had been targets of radicalisation were made wards of court and had their passports removed to prevent them from travelling abroad. This is the bigger problem; protecting our children from online terrorist exploitation.
Police and intelligence services knew Begum and her friends were at risk of joining a terrorist organisation and failed to intervene.
People who think citizenship removal is some form of justice in this case are mistaken. Justice would be ensuring that Begum is fairly tried and, if convicted, properly sentenced. Allowing terrorists, or our own government, to disrupt that process is a denial of justice.