Reform, and the death of the Tory Party

[midlandsgrimpeur]

Perhaps a good reason not to take the "experts" too seriously, especially where Politics and Economics are concerned?

Don't go all 'Gove' on us BL. Last time that happened we got Brexit! 😂

 

[BoldonLad]

Don't go all 'Gove' on us BL. Last time that happened we got Brexit! 😂

Despite what the Professors and Economists may try to tell you, those disciples are not sciences, the Practitioners are the equivalent of alchemists and snake oil salesmen.

 

[bobzmyunkle]

Despite what the Professors and Economists may try to tell you, those disciples are not sciences, the Practitioners are the equivalent of alchemists and snake oil salesmen.

I tend to agree, but have an economist in the family, so have to argue that not every economist is a total charlatan.

 

[briantrumpet]

I think that this is true – that old school moderate Tories tended to be pragmatists and cottoned onto 'the inevitable', even if it wasn't popular news. It's why the Tories' drift into Reformland has been bad for both the Tories and Labour, as Labour haven't been tested by rigorous vaguely sensible argument, and we've got into this ridiculous yah-boo politics over stuff like immigration.

 

[midlandsgrimpeur]

I think that this is true – that old school moderate Tories tended to be pragmatists and cottoned onto 'the inevitable', even if it wasn't popular news. It's why the Tories' drift into Reformland has been bad for both the Tories and Labour, as Labour haven't been tested by rigorous vaguely sensible argument, and we've got into this ridiculous yah-boo politics over stuff like immigration.

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Whilst I obviously agree on the doomed nostalgia point in relation to immigration and a fair few other mythical past ideas, I wouldn't put manufacturing into this group as Henig does. Of course it has declined massively, but as someone who runs a manufacturing business, the sector still employs a lot of people and contributes a sizeable amount to GDP. There are still a lot of specialised sectors where the powerhouses like China aren't interested, as labour costs are too high where you can see highly skilled jobs and real wage growth. The main problem is the mistake in thinking that low skilled and minimum wage jobs are still predominant, these are the jobs that have largely disappeared and aren't coming back.

 

[Pblakeney]

Whilst I obviously agree on the doomed nostalgia point in relation to immigration and a fair few other mythical past ideas, I wouldn't put manufacturing into this group as Henig does. Of course it has declined massively, but as someone who runs a manufacturing business, the sector still employs a lot of people and contributes a sizeable amount to GDP. There are still a lot of specialised sectors where the powerhouses like China aren't interested, as labour costs are too high where you can see highly skilled jobs and real wage growth. The main problem is the mistake in thinking that low skilled and minimum wage jobs are still predominant, these are the jobs that have largely disappeared and aren't coming back.

Systematic of out sourcing the majority of manufacturing to focus on the service industry.
What happens if the service industry in this country is vastly reduced? AI is incoming for a lot of jobs.

 

[briantrumpet]

Whilst I obviously agree on the doomed nostalgia point in relation to immigration and a fair few other mythical past ideas, I wouldn't put manufacturing into this group as Henig does. Of course it has declined massively, but as someone who runs a manufacturing business, the sector still employs a lot of people and contributes a sizeable amount to GDP. There are still a lot of specialised sectors where the powerhouses like China aren't interested, as labour costs are too high where you can see highly skilled jobs and real wage growth. The main problem is the mistake in thinking that low skilled and minimum wage jobs are still predominant, these are the jobs that have largely disappeared and aren't coming back.

I suspect his brush is too broad, yes. I think High St retail would come into the same category of needing to adapt, and the attempt to keep all High Streets looking like they did in the 1970s is pointless in the era of internet retail. At the same time just doing a hands off 'let them die' (as was done with mining) without strategy or mitigation is a recipe for disaster. But the sector won't be well served if the only strategy is nostalgia for temps perdu.

 

[BoldonLad]

I tend to agree, but have an economist in the family, so have to argue that not every economist is a total charlatan.

I understand, even charlatans and snake oil salesmen can be likeable. I have even been encouraging my grandson to be an economist 😊

We just need to be cautious of taking them too seriously 😊

 

[Ian H]

I understand, even charlatans and snake oil salesmen can be likeable. I have even been encouraging my grandson to be an economist 😊

We just need to be cautious of taking them too seriously 😊

Economics is really more philosophy than science. In this it resembles politics.

 

[BoldonLad]

Economics is really more philosophy than science. In this it resembles politics.

I think that is somewhere near where I started 😊

 

[All uphill]

Economics is really more philosophy than science. In this it resembles politics.

Hence the PPE (politics, philosophy and economics) degree courses.

If I could rewind 50 years that's what I would want to study.

 

[briantrumpet]

A brief airing for Farage, but the £5mn is still a problem, so he'll probably go back into hiding again, not least as it's only white men who are stabbing brown men and raping children.

Still, maybe this line will make him more popular with the poor people he wants to vote for him.

 

[midlandsgrimpeur]

A brief airing for Farage, but the £5mn is still a problem, so he'll probably go back into hiding again, not least as it's only white men who are stabbing brown men and raping children.

Still, maybe this line will make him more popular with the poor people he wants to vote for him.

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This is the classic trait of thin skinned narcissists, when questioned they can't help but come out with a flippant and patronising remark which usually betrays their true disdain for other people.

 

[briantrumpet]

This is the classic trait of thin skinned narcissists, when questioned they can't help but come out with a flippant and patronising remark which usually betrays their true disdain for other people.

He is really thin-skinned and gets really irate when pressed, which makes it all the more bemusing that the media haven't been continually prodding him with this kind of stuff, given there's so much of it.

 

[Pross]

He is really thin-skinned and gets really irate when pressed, which makes it all the more bemusing that the media haven't been continually prodding him with this kind of stuff, given there's so much of it.

It's almost like the media don't want to push him as he is saying what they want people to hear.