Reform, and the death of the Tory Party

[briantrumpet]

I'm a great believer in the NHS "free at the point of care" so certainly not arguing for atlernatives but I agree about analysing more that NHS vs US.

When I lived in France I had too much involvement with their state provided healthcare system (ultimately false alarms but caused fair involvement) and it was certainly interesting. nb my experience was several years ago so maybe things have changed. But, when I moved there you didn't have a registered GP and that caused issues as many French would visit one GP get a prescription then visit another next day and get a prescription and their one condition would mean duplicate visits (and they'd end-up with 3 sets of anti-biotics and only use 1). So it changed and you paid €20 to see your registered GP but got €19 refunded (through a very slick fast easy system).

If you needed more serious care there were set rates for different treatments eg (hypothetical numbers) kidney stones €1234 and you chose your hospital and pay what the hospital charged eg €2345 and claimed back only €1234 (Gov. set rate) from the state. Most of these set rates were below what most hospitals charged so you made-up the difference unless you took out "top-up" insurance and with that you decided what %age of the rate you want cover for (can't remember bandings as I never took it out) but eg you'd take private insurance to top-up to 120% of official rate.

But there were exemptions from this when Gov. covered entire cost eg many cancers.

So not genuinely "Free at point of care" but also a long way from the US model.

Remembering that I'm not proposing such a scheme for the UK, just noting how it works in France so we are not comparing like with like for NHS vs CPAM.)

I think that sounds as if it's pretty much the same now, from what one of my French neighbours has said: she's had a number of operations/treatments over the past few years, and the costs of some have certainly been an concern for her.

The GP system is a bit broken, I think. There's no appointment system, AFAIK, at least with the local GP (and yes, it's just one), and there's a national shortage of doctors, with vacancies going unfilled for months, though that might be because it's the region is generally fairly sparsely populated; it might be better in larger conurbations.

 

[AuroraSaab]

What will reform do first if they got in? What chances have they got to get in?

Due to FPTP, not much I'd say. They might get enough MP's to pressurise other parties I suppose but I'm still of the view that people vote differently in general elections than they do in local ones, and that whilst some people mildly support their general rhetoric this won't necessarily translate into a vote in a GE. They'd rather their own party addressed the issues Farage bangs on about - which is where Reform's real influence lies of course, ie influencing the discourse if not the policies.

 

[PurplePenguin]

Braverman defects to Reform.

 

[Pross]

It really feels that there is no longer any difference between Reform and the Tories and the politicians are simply moving where they think they'll have the best chance at the next GE. Time for the Tories to realise this and try to remodel themselves back to the previous Centre Right position whilst jetisoning the right wingers that were the thorn in their side.

 

[Stevo 666]

Braverman defects to Reform.

Not really a surprise.

 

[Stevo 666]

It really feels that there is no longer any difference between Reform and the Tories and the politicians are simply moving where they think they'll have the best chance at the next GE. Time for the Tories to realise this and try to remodel themselves back to the previous Centre Right position whilst jetisoning the right wingers that were the thorn in their side.

If we accept your view at face value about the difference or lack of, then some sort of electoral pact or cooperation would make more sense for both parties. A GE may be some way off but in the end, the priority is GTFLO.

 

[briantrumpet]

It really feels that there is no longer any difference between Reform and the Tories and the politicians are simply moving where they think they'll have the best chance at the next GE. Time for the Tories to realise this and try to remodel themselves back to the previous Centre Right position whilst jetisoning the right wingers that were the thorn in their side.

It does need a SWOT analysis from what's left of the Tory Party. There is definitely an opportunity there, as you say.

 

[spen666]

It does need a SWOT analysis from what's left of the Tory Party. There is definitely an opportunity there, as you say.

That's discriminatory against Jocks - we need Swots and Jocks

 

[briantrumpet]

Haha, just amused by the observation that Reform is an example of the Ship of Theseus (aka Trigger's Broom).

 

[secretsqirrel]

It really feels that there is no longer any difference between Reform and the Tories and the politicians are simply moving where they think they'll have the best chance at the next GE. Time for the Tories to realise this and try to remodel themselves back to the previous Centre Right position whilst jetisoning the right wingers that were the thorn in their side.

They should seriously consider the Davidson Street proposal.

They won’t.

 

[Psamathe]

It really feels that there is no longer any difference between Reform and the Tories and the politicians are simply moving where they think they'll have the best chance at the next GE. Time for the Tories to realise this and try to remodel themselves back to the previous Centre Right position whilst jetisoning the right wingers that were the thorn in their side.

I agree. Great opportunity for Conservatives to move to embrace the middle ground where by all accounts there are lots of potential votes and that they can present Reform as the failed far-right extremists. Lots of middle ground disappointed with Labour's performance and looking for some alternative. Don't think Ms Badenoch is smart enough to spot that nor take

 

[briantrumpet]

I agree. Great opportunity for Conservatives to move to embrace the middle ground where by all accounts there are lots of potential votes and that they can present Reform as the failed far-right extremists. Lots of middle ground disappointed with Labour's performance and looking for some alternative. Don't think Ms Badenoch is smart enough to spot that nor take

I've been banging this drum for some time, from before the demise of Cake Stop. The Conservatives *used to be* the party of pragmatism and being pro-business, until Brexit came along and broke them. (It might have broken Labour too, had they been in power, given Corbyn's antipathy to the EU, contrasted with the general pro-EUness of a lot of Labour supporters... but they weren't in power charged with finding unicorns.)

 

[Pross]

If we accept your view at face value about the difference or lack of, then some sort of electoral pact or cooperation would make more sense for both parties. A GE may be some way off but in the end, the priority is GTFLO.

As a traditional Tory voter wouldn’t you rather see them move back to sensible centre right pro business, small government policies rather than trying to take on far right populists at their own game? At present Reform are the greatest risk to the future of the Conservative Party (as well as Labour). Why would they want a pact when they are taking Tory MPs every few days and are forcing the narrative?

 

[Pinno718]

Defecting Tory's showing their true colours.
Braverman: are you mad?

 

[Milzy]