Reform, and the death of the Tory Party

[Shortfall]

Doesn't that contradict your argument though? You are saying (not without merit) that people are disaffected and sick of being lied to by the political establishment. On the other hand though, they don't want the hard truths about how a country needs to be run in order for there to be a better services, greater economic prosperity and so on.

You can's ask to be told what you want to hear then be surprised when it turns out you have been lied to.

The only real solution to any of this is for a Political party to set out its manifesto and then actually try to deliver it (assuming it is the govt of the time). Then at least you die by the sword. The major problem it seems (from both Labour and previous Tory govts) is the lack of actual governing. Labour themselves have flip flopped on so many policies it is embarrassing.

We as the electorate have to take some level of blame in all of this, we want a govt to tell us what will make us better off as individuals and don't want to suffer any personal hardship as a result, rather than accepting that the overall collective good sometimes means we don't always benefit. As long as we ask our politicians to lie to us, many of them will.

Fair comment. Maybe it's no longer possible to govern in the modern world of social media, instant reaction and clickbait? Maybe it was always thus? I mean there was reluctance to pay to rearm in the face of the threat from Hitler for instance. I dunno. Some level of competence and honesty from our elected politicians would help though I'm sure.

 

[TailWindHome]

Could be quite popular though.

Jesus that's bleak

 

[BoldonLad]

Who are people going to vote for in two elections' time, once they realise that both Reform and the Greens are lunatics in their own sweet ways?

no doubt some new charlatans will be available by them 😂

 

[midlandsgrimpeur]

Fair comment. Maybe it's no longer possible to govern in the modern world of social media, instant reaction and clickbait? Maybe it was always thus? I mean there was reluctance to pay to rearm in the face of the threat from Hitler for instance. I dunno. Some level of competence and honesty from our elected politicians would help though I'm sure.

I think you are absolutely right that it is much harder to govern in the modern world. The ability for instant reaction, mass dissemination of info and so on has a clear effect on what govts and individual politicians think and do, and it seems this is largely for a worse outcome. I agree, and I think the best way to show that level of competency and honesty/integrity is to stick to your guns, so to speak. If a govt makes a decision, stick to it and deliver it, don't scrap it at the first sign of a backlash on social media or in the press.

 

[BoldonLad]

Yeah it's like they're looking at the state of the country and saying " Its not our fault, a big boy did it and ran away". It probably doesn't help their case to call the people looking at an alternative thick, racist b@stards either. I know it sounds radical but maybe they could look at finding some solutions for these disaffected voters?

As has been said many times, we are several years away from a General. Election, however Local Elections are imminent. In the area I live, Labour have had a massive majority (ie 100% control, for about 100 years) for many years, in recent years (say last 2 sets of local elections), their control has slipped, now just above 50% with the balance being held by Greens and "independents".

As May approaches, it is quite. clear that Labour are running scared, particularly of Reform. Local. Social Media is awash. with claims and graphs that only poorly educated racists vote Reform. In an area with lower than average Graduates in the population, this is not wise rhetoric, IMHO.

 

[Ian H]

Can you enumerate what's going so wrong? Compare and contrast to the previous two chancellors please.

Don't be silly, he doesn't do actual figures, just vague prejudice.

 

[Pblakeney]

Fair comment. Maybe it's no longer possible to govern in the modern world of social media, instant reaction and clickbait? Maybe it was always thus? I mean there was reluctance to pay to rearm in the face of the threat from Hitler for instance. I dunno. Some level of competence and honesty from our elected politicians would help though I'm sure.

There was a time when the populace did as they were told and took politicians at face value. Especially so when backed up by their confirmation bias newspapers. The world is no longer like that. Everyone wants instant gratification and zero hardship. Unicorns for numpties.

I can't help but think Screaming Lord Sutch would be considered as a sensible politician these days.

 

[briantrumpet]

There was a time when the populace did as they were told and took politicians at face value. Especially so when backed up by their confirmation bias newspapers. The world is no longer like that. Everyone wants instant gratification and zero hardship. Unicorns for numpties.

I can't help but think Screaming Lord Sutch would be considered as a sensible politician these days.

I asked Gemini what Monster Raving Loony policies had made it into law:

1. Votes for 18-Year-Olds​

One of the party's earliest and most significant campaigns (pushed by founder Screaming Lord Sutch in the 1960s) was to lower the voting age from 21 to 18. This was officially adopted and became law in 1970.

2. Commercial Radio Stations​

Before the 1970s, the BBC had a monopoly on legal radio broadcasting. Screaming Lord Sutch, who briefly ran a pirate radio station (Radio Sutch) from an abandoned anti-aircraft tower in the Thames Estuary, campaigned heavily for the legalization of commercial radio. The government eventually relented, and the first legal commercial stations began broadcasting in 1973.

3. Abolition of Dog Licences​

For decades, the Loony Party campaigned to scrap the "pointless" dog licence, which cost 7s 6d (37.5p) and was widely ignored. The government finally abolished the licence in 1987, effectively adopting a long-standing Loony platform.

4. Passports for Pets​

The party suggested that dogs and cats should have their own passports to avoid lengthy quarantine periods when traveling abroad. In 2001, the UK introduced the "Pet Travel Scheme," which essentially created the pet passport system they had joked about for years.

5. All-Day Pub Opening Hours​

In the 1980s, UK pubs had strictly limited "afternoon breaks" where they had to close. The Loony Party campaigned for 24-hour drinking (or at least the removal of restricted hours). While it took until the Licensing Act 2003, all-day opening is now the norm.

 

[Pblakeney]

I asked Gemini what Monster Raving Loony policies had made it into law:

1. Votes for 18-Year-Olds​

One of the party's earliest and most significant campaigns (pushed by founder Screaming Lord Sutch in the 1960s) was to lower the voting age from 21 to 18. This was officially adopted and became law in 1970.

2. Commercial Radio Stations​

Before the 1970s, the BBC had a monopoly on legal radio broadcasting. Screaming Lord Sutch, who briefly ran a pirate radio station (Radio Sutch) from an abandoned anti-aircraft tower in the Thames Estuary, campaigned heavily for the legalization of commercial radio. The government eventually relented, and the first legal commercial stations began broadcasting in 1973.

3. Abolition of Dog Licences​

For decades, the Loony Party campaigned to scrap the "pointless" dog licence, which cost 7s 6d (37.5p) and was widely ignored. The government finally abolished the licence in 1987, effectively adopting a long-standing Loony platform.

4. Passports for Pets​

The party suggested that dogs and cats should have their own passports to avoid lengthy quarantine periods when traveling abroad. In 2001, the UK introduced the "Pet Travel Scheme," which essentially created the pet passport system they had joked about for years.

5. All-Day Pub Opening Hours​

In the 1980s, UK pubs had strictly limited "afternoon breaks" where they had to close. The Loony Party campaigned for 24-hour drinking (or at least the removal of restricted hours). While it took until the Licensing Act 2003, all-day opening is now the norm.

And there we have it. The Monster Raving Looney Party, better than the Greens or Reform.

 

[icowden]

Growth in 2025:
While initial growth was robust at 0.7% in Q1, it slowed to 0.1% in Q3 due to weaker manufacturing and a, as reported in the Office for National Statistics 2025 bulletins.

That's terrible isn't it? Hang on - fact check - GDP was 1.4% higher in 2025 under Labour than it had been under the Conservatives in 2024, and they only managed a 1.1% increase in Q4 2024 compared to Q4 2023. So doesn't that mean that Labour is doing a better job than the Conservatives?

• Vacancy Levels: Vacancies remained broadly flat in late 2025, sitting around 729,000 to 734,000, which is significantly lower than the record highs seen in 2022.

That's just a bit misleading. There were record vacancies in 2022 as jobs were opening up again post-covid. In 2023 job vacancies fell from 1.1 million to 949,000. In 2024 job vacancies fell from that to 812,000. They then fell to 726,000 in early 2025, but improved to 734000 by year end. I'm not clear whether vacancies are good or bad.

Tax burden in 2025 - NI rise says it all. Business rates hike is very well publicised.

But then the Tories froze income tax thresholds in 2022 for 6 years, increased dividend tax rates, lowered the additional rate threshold. So they are responsible for a lot of the tax burden. So yes, Labour increased NI, but that was just the icing on the cake really.

Labour polls performance: Do I really need to post evidence for this?

No - but then polls aren't actually based on reality. They are based on opinion so they don't mean much.

To put it another way, outside of normal taxes, Liz Truss has cost me almost £6000 a year for 10 years by crashing the economy. Starmer has cost me £6000 over 2 years.

 

[bobzmyunkle]

Your deny the reality of any of those? - they pretty self evident. Here's a few basics to help you pull your head out of the sand:-
Growth in 2025:
While initial growth was robust at 0.7% in Q1, it slowed to 0.1% in Q3 due to weaker manufacturing and a, as reported in the Office for National Statistics 2025 bulletins.

Job vacancies in 2025:
"Key 2025 UK Job Market Trends

• Vacancy Levels: Vacancies remained broadly flat in late 2025, sitting around 729,000 to 734,000, which is significantly lower than the record highs seen in 2022.
• Sector Declines: Vacancies dropped in 13 to 16 out of 18 industry sectors by the end of 2025, with significant declines in wholesale/retail and health/social work.
• Unemployment Rate: The number of unemployed people per vacancy rose, reaching 2.5 in late 2025, up from 1.8 the previous year, indicating a tighter job market for job seekers."

Tax burden in 2025 - NI rise says it all. Business rates hike is very well publicised.

Labour polls performance: Do I really need to post evidence for this?

As for Trussonomics, I've already said I'm not interested in what aboutery. Did you not read that?

Anyway, please can you now justify why you think Labour are doing a great job and we should all vote for them (assuming they allow us to do that).

Can you put that into graph please? I believe there's a thread where you can post it.
But really Stephen, well done for at least coming up with some numbers.

 

[All uphill]

whatever parties/coalitions emerge then they will have the job of fixing things.

Do you think things can be fixed in a timescale acceptable to the electorate?

 

[Shortfall]

Do you think things can be fixed in a timescale acceptable to the electorate?

I have absolutely no idea. Lots of things could happen at the next election, including Labour holding onto power if they manage to find some growth down the back of the sofa and get the economy working. I would say this is unlikely but not as unlikely as a win for the Conservatives. The most likely scenario (at least for now) is some form of coalition between Reform and A N other party. I suppose it's possible (but only remotely) there's an outright win for Farage. If Labour make a success of things then you can all slap each other on the back and have endless laughs at my expense. If Farage does better than you expect and he generates growth and rising employment whilst immigration shrinks then you'll have to suck it up and admit you were wrong. If he ends up presiding over a collapsing economy and everything else continues on its downward trajectory to stagnation and failure then our best hope is that new parties emerge from the wreckage of the old ones and someone with a new vision for the country will be given the chance to reverse decades of failure. I'm not tribal in my politics and I don't have unrealistic expectations of politicians, but if you're asking me to nail my colours to the mast then I predict a Farage led coalition and beyond that I can only cross my fingers that it won't be a total sh1t show.