Reform, and the death of the Tory Party

[C R]

I did indeed re Mandelson. But it would be healthy to remind people of Farage's misdemeanours too. Glasshouses and all that.

Of course, what I mean is that Farage asking for an investigation when one is already ongoing is just vacuous grandstanding.

 

[briantrumpet]

Of course, what I mean is that Farage asking for an investigation when one is already ongoing is just wildly hypocritical grandstanding.

As they say, 'FTFY'.

 

[C R]

As they say, 'FTFY'.

Hypocrisy can be vacuous too.

 

[Pblakeney]

Howzabout "the manifestos *and* governments" we deserve?

Though even I'm not sure if we deserved both Johnson *and* Truss. If we'd skipped from May to Sunak, maybe the Tory Party (and the UK) wouldn't be in such dire straits now.

True.
Key point there is that the electorate did not have a say on Truss.

 

[briantrumpet]

True.
Key point there is that the electorate did not have a say on Truss.

A pity, as that could have been quite funny.

 

[Psamathe]

True.
Key point there is that the electorate did not have a say on Truss.

A pity, as that could have been quite funny.

Which for me highlights a major failing of our political/electoral system.

Most of the country never gets any say/vote as to who is PM. Massively powerful position and vast majority have no vote.

Some say our vote for our constituency representative is often treated as a vote for a party rather than an individual representative, then when an MP changes Party and thus is their vote becomes determined by a different leader/whips then there should be an obligatory bye election.

Politicians treat our votes a delegating which it absolutely is not.

 

[Pblakeney]

Which for me highlights a major failing of our political/electoral system.

Most of the country never gets any say/vote as to who is PM. Massively powerful position and vast majority have no vote.

Some say our vote for our constituency representative is often treated as a vote for a party rather than an individual representative, then when an MP changes Party and thus is their vote becomes determined by a different leader/whips then there should be an obligatory bye election.

Politicians treat our votes a delegating which it absolutely is not.

That is a true anomaly in our system.
Agreed, if any MP wants to switch parties then there should be an automatic by-election.

 

[Stevo 666]

Trying? Now you're being patronising.

I always give you marks for trying, even when you're talking bollox.

 

[Stevo 666]

Again, I'm questioning your literacy. You keep saying that Labour are doing worse but failing to compare them to their predecessors. Then you accuse everyone else of whataboutery. You have to have a baseline to compare to, if you are going to assert that something is doing worse. If that baseline is not the previous Conservative Government then what is it?

Can you not grasp the point that this is not a comparison with the last lot? It's about whether they are doing a good job. On matters such as those I mentioned above.

Some of these are easily measured by metrics such economic growth, job vacancies etc. Should be pretty easy to rebut those the fact support your view, but first you need to understand what I'm saying. Have one more go.

 

[icowden]

Can you not grasp the point that this is not a comparison with the last lot? It's about whether they are doing a good job. On matters such as those I mentioned above.

Can you not grasp that to measure whether Labour are doing a good job you have to measure them against a comparator

Some of these are easily measured by metrics such economic growth

Which is better than previously.

Should be pretty easy to rebut those the fact support your view, but first you need to understand what I'm saying. Have one more go.

Yes, you are saying that you are too lazy to provide any substantive evidence to support your world view and you think other people should do that for you.

I've already posted FullFact's manifesto tracker which shows Labour delivering across the board. I've posted evidence that the economy has grown more in the first year of Labour than the previous years of Conservative Rule.

 

[bobzmyunkle]

Yes, you are saying that you are too lazy to provide any substantive evidence to support your world view and you think other people should do that for you.

It's the @Stevo 666 way.
He's right because, well he just is.

 

[Pinno718]

Reform UK's Epstein problem: Nick Candy

Is there a faint chance that the network that Epstein was the epicentre of, is being protected, projected, and maintained and is being perpetuated by the promotion and funding of far right groups like ADP and Reform?

 

[Pinno718]

 

[Pinno718]

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...photo-musk-nick-candy-mar-a-lago-trump-reform

 

[Stevo 666]

Can you not grasp that to measure whether Labour are doing a good job you have to measure them against a comparator

Which is better than previously.

Yes, you are saying that you are too lazy to provide any substantive evidence to support your world view and you think other people should do that for you.

I've already posted FullFact's manifesto tracker which shows Labour delivering across the board. I've posted evidence that the economy has grown more in the first year of Labour than the previous years of Conservative Rule.

If you want to start a separate debate about comparing Labour and Tory performance then crack on. But stick to the subject here.