Reform, and the death of the Tory Party

[Pross]

She did it by mistake, Tice did it on purpose.
And she had to resign.

Yeah but hypocrisy or summit - way worse than actual criminal stuff cos she’s a leftie.

 

[briantrumpet]

Yeah but hypocrisy or summit - way worse than actual criminal stuff cis she’s a leftie.

Just trying to remember the CS responses to Zahawi's £6mn tax dodge... maybe I'm misremembering, but I have a vague recollection of the 'lefties' on CS being told it was all fine.

 

[Ian H]

Apparently that might be satirical, but if so, it's a bold strategy for the Spectator, as it might be difficult to be sure.

The Spectator is mostly unwittingly satirical. But I do like Dot Wordsworth and the (possibly satirical) Dear Mary. I'd never buy it to read it, but fortunately it's amongst the periodicals here -

 

[briantrumpet]

The Spectator is mostly unwittingly satirical. But I do like Dot Wordsworth and the (possibly satirical) Dear Mary. I'd never buy it to read it, but fortunately it's amongst the periodicals here -
View attachment 14005

Maybe once I'm properly retired I should learn to read and join that august society.

 

[Ian H]

Maybe once I'm properly retired I should learn to read and join that august society.

Beware: only some of the chairs are comfortable.

 

[Ian H]

View attachment 13996

 

[briantrumpet]

Beware: only some of the chairs are comfortable.

Maybe wearing cycling attire would be advised for a well-padded derrière confortable - I'm sure the old fogeys wouldn't mind.

 

[Ian H]

Maybe wearing cycling attire would be advised for a well-padded derrière confortable - I'm sure the old fogeys wouldn't mind.

Now that the Holt has a pub next door but a few...

 

[CXRAndy]

Especially when compared to the genuine mistake that Angela Raynor lost her job over

Yeah right

She was warned multiple times to get proper advice regarding the stamp duty.

She ignored that advice, went ahead and claimed relief she was not allowed. All whilst being a minister

Thats why she lost her job, the ministerial code was broken

 

[CXRAndy]

I care not whether it is legal, it looks very bad.
Especially when compared to the genuine mistake that Angela Raynor lost her job over. I think the Daily Mail ran front page articles for a whole week about her.
Yet Tice is lorded as some sort of business guru. Yet claims he had to move to Dubai because he couldn’t afford the VAT on school fees. He’s a total knob.

They moved so not to pay VAT on school fees.

Different

 

[Stevo 666]

Yeah, but what about Rayner doing legal but hypocritical tax stuff.

Not paying that that was clearly due isnt legal.

 

[Stevo 666]

I care not whether it is legal, it looks very bad.
Especially when compared to the genuine mistake that Angela Raynor lost her job over. I think the Daily Mail ran front page articles for a whole week about her.
Yet Tice is lorded as some sort of business guru. Yet claims he had to move to Dubai because he couldn’t afford the VAT on school fees. He’s a total knob.

Rayner didn't pay tax that was clearly due. The jury is out on the Tice case, but if it is a case of legal optimisation of a complex tax position then the optics may be bad but that's not relevant to whether there is any wrong doing. If however he has been evading tax, then he deserves to get the book thrown at him. Let's see.

 

[icowden]

Rayner didn't pay tax that was clearly due.

Stevo, that's complete bollocks and you know it. After a detailed review of the purchase it was found that on balance she probably should have paid the tax, but at the time was advised by people whose job it is to advise about tax that she didn't need to pay the tax as the property was exempt due to being purchased via a Trust for her disabled son.

The jury is out on the Tice case,

Again. Bollocks. There is absolutely no doubt that Tice is such a patriot that he has deliberately avoided paying £600m in tax.

but if it is a case of legal optimisation of a complex tax position then the optics may be bad but that's not relevant to whether there is any wrong doing.

Agreed. It just makes him an immoral cünt.

 

[CXRAndy]

She broke ministerial code, which she championed for being stricter. She clearly ignored advice, the estate agent told her. They even went public when she initially tried to pass the blame onto them.

Backing all this up, she would have had legal and tax opinion easily available to her. She ignored taking advice

 

[icowden]

Not paying that that was clearly due isnt legal.

Small point - HMRC have ruled that is was, and that the flat was her primary residence. She has only been found guilty of breaching the ministerial code. So cleared by Electoral Fraud and by HMRC. Her only "offence" was to not have realised (based on legal advice) that her interest in the original family home which was joint owned by her husband, and which she put her share into via a Trust for her son, might move her new home into the second home bracket even though she only owned one home.

She said she had been advised by both an individual experienced in conveyancing and 2 specialists in trust law, at the time of purchase that she was liable only for the standard rate of stamp duty (£30,000) rather than the higher rate applicable to second homes (£70,000), as she owned no other property following the trust arrangement.

ALso

The allegations suggested that whilst Rayner had legally structured her property arrangements to minimise tax liability, the timing of the trust arrangement in relation to the Hove purchase raised questions about tax avoidance. Critics pointed to the apparent contradiction between her declarations to different councils about which property constituted her primary residence.

So it's fine to deliberately legally structure your vast wealth to minimise tax liability if you are Richard Tice of Reform and avoid paying £600m in tax, but beyond the pale for a single woman with one property to do the same and mistakenly avoid £40k in tax based on financial advice.