Reform, and the death of the Tory Party

[Beebo]

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The one area I do have some sympathy, is that comments made before you become a politician should not be taken out of context. It’s not a resignation matter. I would hate anyone to trawl my history.

Unless the comment is illegal or harmful they should be put to one side. Same with MPs who may have done a few silly things as students. We can’t retrospectively police everyone’s comments for their whole life.

 

[Pblakeney]

The one area I do have some sympathy, is that comments made before you become a politician should not be taken out of context. It’s not a resignation matter. I would hate anyone to trawl my history.

Unless the comment is illegal or harmful they should be put to one side. Same with MPs who may have done a few silly things as students. We can’t retrospectively police everyone’s comments for their whole life.

Are you new to the internet? Or politics for that matter?
Not that I disagree with your point.

 

[briantrumpet]

The one area I do have some sympathy, is that comments made before you become a politician should not be taken out of context. It’s not a resignation matter. I would hate anyone to trawl my history.

Unless the comment is illegal or harmful they should be put to one side. Same with MPs who may have done a few silly things as students. We can’t retrospectively police everyone’s comments for their whole life.

They should be able to apologise for them as a silly indiscretion - I can think of several cringey things I've said, and would happily apologise if anyone remembered them and said they were offended.

It would be a problem though if those attitudes (e.g., misogyny), which past comments illustrated, were part of someone's political appeal, and the person who had made problematic statements was unwilling to disown them because they still agree with them.

 

[icowden]

They should be able to apologise for them as a silly indiscretion - I can think of several cringey things I've said, and would happily apologise if anyone remembered them and said they were offended.

Or even not as a silly indiscretion. There was a huge blow up for Janey Godley (Comedian) when a journalist went through her history of tweets. She was dropped from BBC radio panel shows etc. She went straight on to media interviews where, rather than just saying she didn't mean it, or trying to make excuses, she just owned the tweets. She came out and said, yes, I said those things, they were wrong and I deeply regret them. She spoke quite eloquently and didn't make excuses.

 

[BoldonLad]

Eh?

You gave me as many, or, perhaps, fewer examples of people on zero hours contracts, as I could give you of people not on zero hours contracts (who do get paid for overtime). Your examples are as meaningful as (or not) as mine.

 

[Beebo]

Are you new to the internet? Or politics for that matter?
Not that I disagree with your point.

I know how the tabloid press works.
The one that always annoys me is someone digs out a student party fancy dress black face from the 80s or 90s. Or even Prince Harry ‘s nazi uniform.
These things were common place youngsters being a bit edgy, and it wasn’t seen as unacceptable.
If they then had a history over the next 20 years then call it out, but one off silly stuff 30 years ago isn’t an issue to me.

 

[briantrumpet]

I know how the tabloid press works.
The one that always annoys me is someone digs out a student party fancy dress black face from the 80s or 90s. Or even Prince Harry ‘s nazi uniform.
These things were common place youngsters being a bit edgy, and it wasn’t seen as unacceptable.
If they then had a history over the next 20 years then call it out, but one off silly stuff 30 years ago isn’t an issue to me.

But, as I say, it's easy to apologise for those things now, at no political cost, unless you actually want people to think you still hold those values. That's the issue with politicians, when you're (justifiably) trying to work out what their current attitudes are.

 

[Beebo]

But, as I say, it's easy to apologise for those things now, at no political cost, unless you actually want people to think you still hold those values. That's the issue with politicians, when you're (justifiably) trying to work out what their current attitudes are.

Very true.
But it doesn’t always work. Danny Baker apologised immediately for his silly tweet about Harry and Megan’s baby.
But has been permanently cancelled and never worked on TV again.
Yet other people who have said worse about Megan still work in high profile jobs.

 

[Dorset Boy]

Or even not as a silly indiscretion. There was a huge blow up for Janey Godley (Comedian) when a journalist went through her history of tweets. She was dropped from BBC radio panel shows etc. She went straight on to media interviews where, rather than just saying she didn't mean it, or trying to make excuses, she just owned the tweets. She came out and said, yes, I said those things, they were wrong and I deeply regret them. She spoke quite eloquently and didn't make excuses.

She'll never make a politician

 

[C R]

You gave me as many, or, perhaps, fewer examples of people on zero hours contracts, as I could give you of people not on zero hours contracts (who do get paid for overtime). Your examples are as meaningful as (or not) as mine.

I thought I had mentioned that all of our daughters friends report the same across hospitality and retail, and it applies to the "permanent" staff as well as part time. We hear the same from people we know who work on those fields. Maybe there are geographical variations, but other than established manufacturing businesses, overtime seems to be a thing of the past around here.

 

[Psamathe]

The one area I do have some sympathy, is that comments made before you become a politician should not be taken out of context. It’s not a resignation matter. I would hate anyone to trawl my history.

Unless the comment is illegal or harmful they should be put to one side. Same with MPs who may have done a few silly things as students. We can’t retrospectively police everyone’s comments for their whole life.

I think it depends. So many relevant variables about when you draw a line.

eg Trump's Access Hollywood tapes (the "I don't even wait. And when you're a star, they let you do it. You can do anything. ... Grab 'em by the pussy. You can do anything."). He wasn't a politician, just a TV personality. Should we ignore it as "pre-politician stupidity" or should be consider it along with current behaviour?

 

[Mr Celine]

She'll never make a politician

She was far too honest.

 

[Beebo]

I think it depends. So many relevant variables about when you draw a line.

eg Trump's Access Hollywood tapes (the "I don't even wait. And when you're a star, they let you do it. You can do anything. ... Grab 'em by the pussy. You can do anything."). He wasn't a politician, just a TV personality. Should we ignore it as "pre-politician stupidity" or should be consider it along with current behaviour?

I would call that illegal and harmful.
But yes, a pattern of behaviour cannot be ignored.
And leader of the free world, is slightly more high profile than Reform candidate in a by election. So probably deserves more scrutiny.

 

[Psamathe]

I think it depends. So many relevant variables about when you draw a line.

eg Trump's Access Hollywood tapes (the "I don't even wait. And when you're a star, they let you do it. You can do anything. ... Grab 'em by the pussy. You can do anything."). He wasn't a politician, just a TV personality. Should we ignore it as "pre-politician stupidity" or should be consider it along with current behaviour?

I would call that illegal and harmful.
But yes, a pattern of behaviour cannot be ignored.
And leader of the free world, is slightly more high profile than Reform candidate in a by election. So probably deserves more scrutiny.

It's an interesting aspect and one very subject to personal bias.
I suspect that what Trūmp said was not illegal but were he to do what he said it would be (and he doesn't always seem to be 100% truthful). A confession or showing-off with lies?

But either way somebody's past can provide a helpful appreciation as to who they are now.

I can appreciate the aspect that liking what somebody else said several years back ... could be a bit OTT but consistent liking of many posts from others supporting a particular view can again help understand their underlying beliefs.

eg Faråge's behaviour at school, letters from his teachers, etc. relevant or to be dismissed? Trouble is much of the reported behavious sort of fits with the attitudes I see from him today so to me useful in that it suggests likely a deep seated pattern of attitudes unlikely to change eg on new information/statistics.

Hence a balance, it depends.