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monkers

Squire
Anyhow, by popular request from 'AngryBob' ^_^ , here is the old tax parable of the ten men in a bar which can help some people with limited tax knowledge understand why it isn't a good idea to make the tax environment unfriendly towards high earners and wealth creators.

"Suppose that every day, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten comes to $100.

If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this:

The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.
The fifth would pay $1.
The sixth would pay $3.
The seventh would pay $7.
The eighth would pay $12.
The ninth would pay $18.
The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59.

So, that’s what they decided to do.

The ten men drank in the bar every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until one day, the owner threw them a curve. ‘Since you are all such good customers,’ he said, ‘I’m going to reduce the cost of your daily beer by $20.’ Drinks for the ten now cost just $80.

The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes so the first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free. But what about the other six men – the paying customers? How could they divide the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his ‘fair share?’

They realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33. But if they subtracted that from everybody’s share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would each end up being paid to drink his beer.

So, the bar owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man’s bill by roughly the same amount, and he proceeded to work out the amounts each should pay. And so:
The fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100%savings).
The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33%savings).
The seventh now paid $5 instead of $7 (28%savings).
The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 (25% savings).
The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 (22% savings).
The tenth now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% savings).

Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four continued to drink for free. But once outside the restaurant, the men began to compare their savings.

‘I only got a dollar out of the $20,’ declared the sixth man. He pointed to the tenth man, ‘but he got $10!’

‘Yeah, that’s right,’ exclaimed the fifth man. ‘I only saved a dollar, too. It’s unfair that he got ten times more than I got!’

‘That’s true!!’ shouted the seventh man. ‘Why should he get $10 back when I got only two? The wealthy get all the breaks!’

‘Wait a minute,’ yelled the first four men in unison. ‘We didn’t get anything at all. The system exploits the poor!’

The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.

The next night the tenth man didn’t show up for drinks so the nine sat down and had beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important. They didn’t have enough money between all of them for even half of the bill!

And that, ladies and gentlemen, politicians, journalists and think tank professors, is how our tax system works!!

The people who pay the highest taxes get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore. In fact, they might start drinking overseas where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier
."

TL: DR
 

diplodicus

New Member
Except in reality the poorest four pay for there own drinks and the richest drinks for free because the landlord is terrified of him taking his "business" to a foreign bar:laugh:
 

Rusty Nails

Country Member
What would have happened in that ‘parable’ if the landlord had decided not to reduce the shares of the bill by an across-the-board % and instead recalibrated the shares based on a new price of $80 based ‘on the way we pay our taxes’?
 
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BoldonLad

Old man on a bike. Not a member of a clique.
Location
South Tyneside
But how does Nigel know these things? He doesn't live in their streets either. He lives in a large house in the countryside in the village of Downe and has a second home by the sea in Greatstone. He has no more knowledge of these people than the journalist asking the question. He's rarely ever seen in Clacton as he's too busy greasing Trump's anus.

What a patronising sexist pig.

In other words, if we exclude Trump and his anus, Farage is pretty much like the rest of the “political class” and, associated commentators.

Love him or hate him (I am in the latter camp), Nigel is very good at what he does. Keir on the other hand, is mediocre.
 

BoldonLad

Old man on a bike. Not a member of a clique.
Location
South Tyneside
Years of piss-poor governance, culminating in Brexit, Johnson and Truss have guaranteed that we will have to become poorer.

An aging population with its demands on the NHS and social care, and the pension triple lock, eat up lots of the limited resources.

What politician would dare be honest about these things? Are we ready to hear the truth, or do we prefer lies?

Simples:

We prefer lies, until they are exposed.
 

BoldonLad

Old man on a bike. Not a member of a clique.
Location
South Tyneside
There is also the issue of numbers involved. The value of unpaid tax by the wealthy is assessed as about 8% of that unpaid by small businesses, but I guarantee that the number of people classed as wealthy is many times less than 8% of the number of small businesses so a targetted approach to reducing the value of non-payment of tax by the wealthy will be much more cost effective per intervention.

Indeed, the old 80/20 rule is everywhere 😂
 
From the people I've spoken to, it seems that many are upset about so many people coming over here on boats and being put up in hotels. it doesn't help that fake/one-sided videos are being put up on social media. Local elections I think have become just a pre-curser for a GE in terms of who people vote for. As usual, you get a party who look at the most pressing issues on the surface (immigrants and potholes) and they promise to sort it out to gain more votes. Traditionally it was the Tories or Labour, but now Reform have taken these issues under their wing as it's something they are already passionate about. It helps a great deal that many voters are also passionate about these same issues.

That's what I think anyway. People round here don't tend to hold local councils in high regard, whoever they are. In Plymouth it's been wasted money on vanity projetccs, whilst nothing has been done about antisocial behaviour and potholes.
 

icowden

Squire
From the people I've spoken to, it seems that many are upset about so many people coming over here on boats and being put up in hotels.
Because they have been lied to about how many people are coming over, and there seems to be no movement in actually processing asylum claims quickly.

That's part of the problem. It's easy for Farage and the Mail to exaggerate the numbers and make out that all refugees are criminals. Asylum seeker is synonymous with murderer / rapist in many people's minds.

We need to do a lot more to hit home the message that asylum seekers are desperate people seeking help.
 
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