Starmer's vision quest

[Shortfall]

It's interesting that when we're in the middle of one of the biggest political scandals in living memory which might also become a constitutional crisis that brings down the monarchy with it, and when the economy is teetering on the brink (even if it hasn't personally affected any of you yet) that you want to turn the attention onto Reform and Donald Trump. Knock yourselves out lads, but I think you're missing the point somewhat.

 

[spen666]

It's interesting that when we're in the middle of one of the biggest political scandals in living memory which might also become a constitutional crisis that brings down the monarchy with it, and when the economy is teetering on the brink (even if it hasn't personally affected any of you yet) that you want to turn the attention onto Reform and Donald Trump. Knock yourselves out lads, but I think you're missing the point somewhat.

Hyperbolic post alert

 

[C R]

It's interesting that when we're in the middle of one of the biggest political scandals in living memory which might also become a constitutional crisis that brings down the monarchy with it, and when the economy is teetering on the brink (even if it hasn't personally affected any of you yet) that you want to turn the attention onto Reform and Donald Trump. Knock yourselves out lads, but I think you're missing the point somewhat.

If your and your children complexion was such that the likes of reform could single you out as, in their view, not from here, your attitude to the possibility of a reform government might be a lot less sanguine.

 

[laurentian]

I understand fully, you want a person with the same attitudes as Campbell to try and revive starmer's popularity.

A person directly involved in setting off a middle east turbulence the west is still trying to cope with today

Firstly, its not about what I want - I believe it's what the government need.

Better communications.

I suppose they could trawl X and post up random shoot though . . . would that be better?

 

[Dorset Boy]

If your and your children complexion was such that the likes of reform could single you out as, in their view, not from here, your attitude to the possibility of a reform government might be a lot less sanguine.

I don't thing Shortfall has advocated for a Reform Government, and has actually said it would be bad. I think there's only one poster on here that would be genuinely happy if Reform won a GE.

But the Mandelson affair has been and is huge, so suggesting that the BBC correspondent shouldn't write about it in the aftermath of last night's meeting is frankly silly.
Last night has bought Starmer more time, but if / when Labour get trounced in those May elections they are permitting, the noose might just tighten once more.

 

[CXRAndy]

Why


View: https://x.com/i/status/2020872865503928478

 

[C R]

I don't thing Shortfall has advocated for a Reform Government, and has actually said it would be bad. I think there's only one poster on here that would be genuinely happy if Reform won a GE.

But the Mandelson affair has been and is huge, so suggesting that the BBC correspondent shouldn't write about it in the aftermath of last night's meeting is frankly silly.
Last night has bought Starmer more time, but if / when Labour get trounced in those May elections they are permitting, the noose might just tighten once more.

I was replying to this bit

that you want to turn the attention onto Reform and Donald Trump. Knock yourselves out lads, but I think you're missing the point somewhat.

 

[briantrumpet]

It's interesting that when we're in the middle of one of the biggest political scandals in living memory which might also become a constitutional crisis that brings down the monarchy with it, and when the economy is teetering on the brink (even if it hasn't personally affected any of you yet) that you want to turn the attention onto Reform and Donald Trump. Knock yourselves out lads, but I think you're missing the point somewhat.

All of this applied to Boris Johnson, and it involved the PM actually breaking the law multiple times by him and other ministers (not least proroguing Parliament and lying to the Queen), so your "one of the biggest" is doing quit a lot of heavy lifting there.

Starmer made a bad call, sure.

 

[Pblakeney]

I'm curious as to what people think might bring about positive change?
A change in leader? If so, who and will it make any difference?
An election? Not going to happen as too many current Labour MPs would lose their jobs.

Regardless of who is in charge I think it will take more level headed thinking, thinking all proposals through all potential consequences, being more positive, and cut out the infighting. Do I think that will happen? No.

 

[monkers]

I don't thing Shortfall has advocated for a Reform Government, and has actually said it would be bad. I think there's only one poster on here that would be genuinely happy if Reform won a GE.

But the Mandelson affair has been and is huge, so suggesting that the BBC correspondent shouldn't write about it in the aftermath of last night's meeting is frankly silly.
Last night has bought Starmer more time, but if / when Labour get trounced in those May elections they are permitting, the noose might just tighten once more.

True. He has an opportunity to convince everyone he is a loser by losing a by-election this month first.

 

[midlandsgrimpeur]

I'm curious as to what people think might bring about positive change?

I do think something as simple as governing will make a massive change. As we have all discussed at length, stop campaigning from day one and get on with the process of actually delivering what was in the manifesto and stick to things, rather than change tack at the first sign of any criticism.

 

[midlandsgrimpeur]

All of this applied to Boris Johnson, and it involved the PM actually breaking the law multiple times by him and other ministers (not least proroguing Parliament and lying to the Queen), so your "one of the biggest" is doing quit a lot of heavy lifting there.

Starmer made a bad call, sure.

Throw in the Covid law breaking and the misuse of hundreds of million of pounds paid to friends of Ministers during the pandemic whilst tens of thousands died. Mandelson is a **** and I have every sympathy for all the victims of Epstein and his associates, but in terms of national scandal, what went on during the pandemic outweighs pretty much anything else over the last decade or so IMO.

 

[briantrumpet]

I do think something as simple as governing will make a massive change. As we have all discussed at length, stop campaigning from day one and get on with the process of actually delivering what was in the manifesto and stick to things, rather than change tack at the first sign of any criticism.

This. It seems the political world is too often starting with the tweets and working back from there to make policy: the gleeful Mahmood immigrant stuff falls firmly in that mould. Do good stuff that you believe in, then the campaign in the actual run up to the election from say 6 or 12 months out can be "Look what we've done". Even with 'just' an 80-seat majority, you can get pretty much anything past Parliament with next to no scrutiny or pushback.

 

[Dorset Boy]

I'm curious as to what people think might bring about positive change?
A change in leader? If so, who and will it make any difference?
An election? Not going to happen as too many current Labour MPs would lose their jobs.

Regardless of who is in charge I think it will take more level headed thinking, thinking all proposals through all potential consequences, being more positive, and cut out the infighting. Do I think that will happen? No.

The first thing is to actually think through their policies properly first, which will then prevent the need to U-turn so often.
It's then to grow a backbone and for those policies they have thought through properly, not to bow to back bench pressure to change them (avoiding more U-turns).
Thirdly, think properly about the taxation situation - the NI increase on employers was utterly dumb, adding 2p to savings tax isn't smart, freezing persoanl allowances for years isn't good.

The country certainly doesn't need yet more instability, so a change of PM would not be good, but Starmer needs to up his game significantly.

 

[Pblakeney]

I do think something as simple as governing will make a massive change. As we have all discussed at length, stop campaigning from day one and get on with the process of actually delivering what was in the manifesto and stick to things, rather than change tack at the first sign of any criticism.

Agreed, and fair. I should have added that to my list.