Starmer's vision quest

[Beebo]

Along the lines of "Popularism", people voting for selfish-self interest, etc.
It's another aspect to my disappointment in Starmer. Pre-election he presented himself as this Human Rights Lawyer who would stand up for the vulnerable, for those less fortunate. Instead it's do as the lobbyists from vested interests demand, as cruel as skirting the law will allow towards refugees (changes to law to allow even crueller stance), take from those already in need of support (eg Winter fuel allowance), massive cuts to foreign aid and perpetuating spending it for domestic responsibilities (eg allocating foreign aid budget to housing refugees in the UK), etc.

I'd hoped he'd be talking about democracy not being Tyranny of the Majority, how we as a nation are better than personal self-interest, how we can afford supporting the vulnerable and how it also helps our economy, etc.

Starmer seems to have switched sides day of election. Big disappointment and thrown away opportunity.

It has been a huge let down, but the constant under mining from a hostile press, coupled with the usual Labour in fighting hasn’t helped.

I suspect that Starmer is a good person, just a terrible politician.

 

[Psamathe]

I suspect that Starmer is a good person, just a terrible politician.

I used to think that but moved to thinking a good person would not have acted as Starmer has (cutting foreign aid and using some of what's left for domestic responsibilities), Winter Fuel Allowance, etc.. A good person would have said "no, we are better than that, find another way" and not just be pushed along by those less "good persons".

 

[icowden]

Yes.

No. The Greens say that Councillor Khan drove that Lambo at a family wedding. It wasn't his car.

 

[First Aspect]

No. The Greens say that Councillor Khan drove that Lambo at a family wedding. It wasn't his car.

It's like a vegan having a relapse and having a steak.

 

[Pblakeney]

It's like a vegan having a relapse and having a steak.

Son's partner did that.
She's been vegan for 20 years but binged on chilli con carne while pregnant.

 

[Psamathe]

No. The Greens say that Councillor Khan drove that Lambo at a family wedding. It wasn't his car.

What concerned my about it wasn't whether it was his or a one-off but rather that when he posted a video of him doing it it look like pride. Not a one off as much as "look at me doing this thing so contrary to my aims in my current position ...", failing to see the contradictions.

 

[briantrumpet]

OK, I know it's not going to happen, but in light of Burnham deciding that now he's standing in a very Brexity seat that he's not in favour of rejoining the EU, Starmer waiting for Burnham to get elected then deciding that he's changed his mind, the stupid 'red lines' are no more, and, in light of economic necessity, he's going to push for rejoining, would be the funniest thing.

It is going to be interesting if Streeting debates them both and presses them on the subject, as if he sticks to his guns, he could embarrass them both if they try to ignore the economic argument.

 

[Pblakeney]

OK, I know it's not going to happen, but in light of Burnham deciding that now he's standing in a very Brexity seat that he's not in favour of rejoining the EU, Starmer waiting for Burnham to get elected then deciding that he's changed his mind, the stupid 'red lines' are no more, and, in light of economic necessity, he's going to push for rejoining, would be the funniest thing.

It is going to be interesting if Streeting debates them both and presses them on the subject, as if he sticks to his guns, he could embarrass them both if they try to ignore the economic argument.

View attachment 15194

He's trying to avoid the subject altogether. It won't work.
"Andy Burnham has promised not to "re-run" Brexit arguments, as he said he was not proposing the UK considers rejoining the European Union."

 

[briantrumpet]

He's trying to avoid the subject altogether. It won't work.
"Andy Burnham has promised not to "re-run" Brexit arguments, as he said he was not proposing the UK considers rejoining the European Union."

It's Starmer all over again... "Maybe the problem will go away if we don't talk about it!" I can see why the Tories and Reform don't want to face up to how it's turned out, but this pathological ostrichism from Labour is idiotic, with the economic results ten years down the line being unignorable and the public perception of it having shifted considerably, even without the main parties wanting to discuss it. (Ed Davey's Customs-Union-only stratagem is a cop out.)

 

[PurplePenguin]

What concerned my about it wasn't whether it was his or a one-off but rather that when he posted a video of him doing it it look like pride. Not a one off as much as "look at me doing this thing so contrary to my aims in my current position ...", failing to see the contradictions.

The problem is that everyone is a bit hypocritical, so will always fall short when their credentials are examined in detail. This is why I've always felt that green stuff is more about governance than personal credentials. A single vegan does a whole lot less for the environment than someone who changes all farming.

 

[Rusty Nails]

It's Starmer all over again... "Maybe the problem will go away if we don't talk about it!" I can see why the Tories and Reform don't want to face up to how it's turned out, but this pathological ostrichism from Labour is idiotic, with the economic results ten years down the line being unignorable and the public perception of it having shifted considerably, even without the main parties wanting to discuss it. (Ed Davey's Customs-Union-only stratagem is a cop out.)

Burnham wants to win and won’t be standing in nice leafy Devon but in the heart of a Red Wall area where the “Brexit is a disaster” debate probably isn’t the main topic of conversation…as shown by the success of Reform in the council elections.

 

[briantrumpet]

Burnham wants to win and won’t be standing in nice leafy Devon but in the heart of a Red Wall area where the “Brexit is a disaster” debate probably isn’t the main topic of conversation…as shown by the success of Reform in the council elections.

I can see electorally why he's taken the dishonest/coward's way out, but does it mean that the country will forever be unable to discuss it honestly, despite all the evidence?

 

[AuroraSaab]

No. The Greens say that Councillor Khan drove that Lambo at a family wedding. It wasn't his car.

I never said he owned it. I guess his Green/environmental epiphany is more recent. Which was kind of my point.

 

[Pblakeney]

Burnham wants to win and won’t be standing in nice leafy Devon but in the heart of a Red Wall area where the “Brexit is a disaster” debate probably isn’t the main topic of conversation…as shown by the success of Reform in the council elections.

Which is why he'll have to argue against his own earlier positions as he is standing in a very pro-Brexit seat.
Not a promising start as a potential leader looking as if he'll flip for popularity at the drop of a hat.

 

[Beebo]

It will be hilarious if he doesn’t win.
How much support are Labour head office going to be giving him?