Starmer's vision quest

[BoldonLad]

How to explain healthcare whilst showing that you have no clue about healthcare.
Patients recover when they recover. Assigning an extra nurse isn't going to make them recover faster.

Waiting times are dependent on number of patients and number of trained professionals. You can run more clinics with more professionals that doesn't mean that any of them are working harder. Plus the number of patients seen can depend on the patients. Some will be quick and easy, some will be slow and want to talk about their life problems, and may have complex co-morbidities.

Doctors, Nurses and ACPs are not sat around on their hands because they can't be bothered to work now that their salary has increased by 5%. They are doing the same jobs and seeing the same number of patients.

Staff / patient levels are significant in patient recover (or lack of), that is one of the major points in the Lucy Letby debate in PE.

Key equipment may be a factor I would have thought, eg no matter how many staff trained to take X-rays you may have, no machine means no x-Rays, etc etc

The NHS (or any other healthcare outfit) consists of more than trained professionals. I would even gamble (only a £1, I don't have a gambling problem 😂) that non-medical staff outnumber trained professionals, in the NHS.

 

[CXRAndy]

Staff / patient levels are significant in patient recover (or lack of), that is one of the major points in the Lucy Letby debate in PE.

Key equipment may be a factor I would have thought, eg no matter how many staff trained to take X-rays you may have, no machine means no x-Rays, etc etc

The NHS (or any other healthcare outfit) consists of more than trained professionals. I would even gamble (only a £1, I don't have a gambling problem 😂) that non-medical staff outnumber trained professionals, in the NHS.

And a whole bunch of administrative people

 

[AndyRM]

There are almost certainly more non medical professionals in the NHS, with good reason.

The idea that you can run an organisation like the NHS without a lot of admin is laughable.

 

[bobzmyunkle]

You want productivity gains?
https://www.theguardian.com/society...oss-jabs-bolster-uk-economy-study-semaglutide

 

[Stevo 666]

There are almost certainly more non medical professionals in the NHS, with good reason.

The idea that you can run an organisation like the NHS without a lot of admin is laughable.

Nearly as laughable as the idea there is no inefficiency, waste or duplication of roles that could be addressed to save money in an organisation that size.

 

[Stevo 666]

I think the need for "strings attached" depends on the sector. eg for the NHS I think conditions attached are less appropriate as there are clinical considerations governments should leave to those with approriate knowledge and there are already targets that NHS as a whole should be moving towards. However for eg rail attaching conditions may be more appropriate and I was urprised Labour didn't include conditions (or maybe given Labour's lack of experience and ability maybe it isn't surprising).

Ian

I agree in so far as it should be 'horses for courses' on the conditions attached to pay rises. But Labour didn't even try to get anything in return.

 

[AndyRM]

Nearly as laughable as the idea there is no inefficiency, waste or duplication of roles that could be addressed to save money in an organisation that size.

I don't disagree, but I don't think anyone was saying that.

 

[Stevo 666]

I don't disagree, but I don't think anyone was saying that.

In which case there's no harm in trying to make things better in those areas. Even Labour have spotted a decent opportunity on the duplication front and are acting on it.
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/... be brought,back from delivering for patients.

 

[AndyRM]

In which case there's no harm in trying to make things better in those areas. Even Labour have spotted a decent opportunity on the duplication front and are acting on it.
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/... be brought,back from delivering for patients.

Well no, but again I don't see anyone having a problem with that.

 

[icowden]

Staff / patient levels are significant in patient recover (or lack of), that is one of the major points in the Lucy Letby debate in PE.

Of course. But more staff is not the same as the same staff working harder.,

 

[Webbo2]

The reason the NHS has more administrative staff than clinical staff is that they have targets set to try and ensure that the funding the NHS is given is used appropriately. So you need admin to collect all the data and process it.
Its rather self defeating.

 

[CXRAndy]

There seems a bit of skulduggery with the renters bill being forced through with little time for scrutiny, late night sittings taking place

 

[BoldonLad]

Of course. But more staff is not the same as the same staff working harder.,

Did I say it was?

 

[icowden]

Nearly as laughable as the idea there is no inefficiency, waste or duplication of roles that could be addressed to save money in an organisation that size.

All of those exist, largely due to the Conservative Party creating an internal market to promote efficiency and always insisting on having competition here there and everywhere. Then you have the clever idea of IR35 which means that, for example, IT Contractors are hired now by an external company as part of a project and that company "sells" the project to the NHS. So the contractor gets £400 a day, his agency gets £100 a day and the "company" gets another £100 a day. So a single contractor costs £600 a day. But due to the A&C pay grades instead of being able to employ someone at the market rate of £80k the NHS can only offer £55k.

So the trust effectively pays £128k per year for someone who would work as an employee for £50k less.

 

[BoldonLad]

All of those exist, largely due to the Conservative Party creating an internal market to promote efficiency and always insisting on having competition here there and everywhere. Then you have the clever idea of IR35 which means that, for example, IT Contractors are hired now by an external company as part of a project and that company "sells" the project to the NHS. So the contractor gets £400 a day, his agency gets £100 a day and the "company" gets another £100 a day. So a single contractor costs £600 a day. But due to the A&C pay grades instead of being able to employ someone at the market rate of £80k the NHS can only offer £55k.

So the trust effectively pays £128k per year for someone who would work as an employee for £50k less.

Being picky again, sorry, but, a £55k per annum employee costs significantly more than £55k. There is Employer NI, Pension a Training to add on for starters.