Starmer's vision quest

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icowden

Squire
I stand by my point above that increasing the net population of the UK by an amount more than a city the size of Manchester every year into the indefinite future isn't sustainable.
Well of course not. It also isn't happening. It's made up.

Net migration reached a high of 906,000 in the year ending June 2023. However, it subsequently decreased to 728,000 in the year ending June 2024.

And of course that migration is almost all legal and government approved. It has nothing to do with the people desperately seeking asylum. In YE June 2024 84,000 people claimed asylum successfully but that number includes those arriving via regular routes as well. The peak was created by the new immigration system after leaving the EU and was entirely due to Conservative policies, although a lot of the bump is migration that was deferred due to Covid.
 
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Dorset Boy

Regular
Well of course not. It also isn't happening. It's made up.

Net migration reached a high of 906,000 in the year ending June 2023. However, it subsequently decreased to 728,000 in the year ending June 2024.

And of course that migration is almost all legal and government approved. It has nothing to do with the people desperately seeking asylum. In YE June 2024 84,000 people claimed asylum successfully but that number includes those arriving via regular routes as well. The peak was created by the new immigration system after leaving the EU and was entirely due to Conservative policies, although a lot of the bump is migration that was deferred due to Covid.

You seem to be saying the net migration figures are made up. Though I don't think that is what you mean.
Obviously not all migrants are ending up in the same town or city, but that's 1,634,000 extra people in the space of 2 years! Or an increase in the population of around 2.4% in that time.
 

Psamathe

Senior Member
On your specific cases:
1. International students - maybe I'm missing the point, but don't international students generally go home once they graduate? In which case if the overall population of intl student is steady, they shouldn't materially affect the numbers.
Student visa will allow you to stay for up to 5 years. After a student visa (completing your bachelor course) you can apply for a Graduate visa which allows you to stay for a further 2 years plus 2 years after completing your course. Total max=9 years and so, ignoring overstaying, students & ex students will leave after 9 years but for each of those 9 years another batch will enter, etc.

I don't know the numbers but I do think it wrong that our University funding has been cut to the point where they are so dependent on large numbers of overseas students is wrong. We should be funding our Universities properly irrespective of the case for overseas students.

Ian
 

Psamathe

Senior Member
I note that construction workers are exempt from the new immigration regime because Starmer has twigged we don't have enough UK builders to build the houses he's promised. But not care workers 'cos ... fück the old & vulnerable as Labour haven't targets for them (131,000 current unfilled vacancies in the care sector so already in desperate need).

If we can train UK residents to be care workers and survive on the low wages, why can't we do the same for builders?

Ian
 
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Pross

Member
There's a massive viscious circle with the care sector. Although often classed as unskilled (even though in Wales at least I believe you have to have an NVQ to be registered) it is a tough job and unattractive to those without work as they'll only earn minimum wage but then there's no money in the system to make it more attractive. One of he good things Boris did (or at least announced) was an increase in NI that was going to be put into social care as well as the NHS. Unfortunately the social care element slowly got ditched and then Rishi reversed the NI increase in a desperate bid to buy votes / set a trap for Labour when they won the election.
 
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Pross

Member
I note that construction workers are exempt from the new immigration regime because Starmer has twigged we don't have enough UK builders to build the houses he's promised. But not care workers 'cos ... fück the old & vulnerable as Labour haven't targets for them (131,000 current unfilled vacancies in the care sector so already in desperate need).

If we can train UK residents to be care workers and survive on the low wages, why can't we do the same for builders?

Ian

To take the part of Rick on the old Bike Radar forum, the elderly continually voted for fvck the young policies so maybe it's time for a rebalance?
 
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CXRAndy

Guru
Well of course not. It also isn't happening. It's made up.

Net migration reached a high of 906,000 in the year ending June 2023. However, it subsequently decreased to 728,000 in the year ending June 2024.

And of course that migration is almost all legal and government approved. It has nothing to do with the people desperately seeking asylum. In YE June 2024 84,000 people claimed asylum successfully but that number includes those arriving via regular routes as well. The peak was created by the new immigration system after leaving the EU and was entirely due to Conservative policies, although a lot of the bump is migration that was deferred due to Covid.

Those numbers are fine and dandy. Given this issue is the number 1 on everyone's mind. Increasing the population at several percent a year is not only stupid it dangerous
 

icowden

Squire
Those numbers are fine and dandy. Given this issue is the number 1 on everyone's mind. Increasing the population at several percent a year is not only stupid it dangerous

It's not number 1 on everyone's mind. It's not several percent. It's not even 1%.
 

BoldonLad

Old man on a bike. Not a member of a clique.
Location
South Tyneside
It is definitely a complex issue and you raise some good points.

On your specific cases:
1. International students - maybe I'm missing the point, but don't international students generally go home once they graduate? In which case if the overall population of intl student is steady, they shouldn't materially affect the numbers.
2. Workers in specific sectors - while I am generally in favour of people coming here who have skillsets that allow them to be net contributors, I said above that where certain sectors have demonstrable shortages that require relatively lower skilled immigration that that is OK in principle (but clearly needs to have some mechanisms to prevent abuse of the rules).

I stand by my point above that increasing the net population of the UK by an amount more than a city the size of Manchester every year into the indefinite future isn't sustainable.

The old 'taking our jobs' and 'draining our services' have become weaponised to some degree, but in the end it is generally the UK working class who suffer from increased competition from lower skilled labour from abroad so it is an issue for many. And where there is a finite supply of services (for example doctors appointment or school places) then those coming to the UK are putting added strain on those services. That said, I would have thought that housing is the biggest issue as they all need somewhere to live and the current rate of immigration exceed even Labour's stated house building targets, never mind what it will actually achieve on that front.

Possibly, “International Student” provides a “gateway”?, for example, a recent BBC News interview i saw, International Student from Nigeria, came here to study, at end of his course, claimed (and granted) asylum because he was/is gay and risked persecution if he returned to Nigeria. A sample of one is not statistically relevant of course, and, I have no idea if there any figures available. As usual with these “1 minute interviews” there were lots NOT asked, like, was his skill-set in short supply, was he contributing, etc etc
 

icowden

Squire
Currently it is number 1. It's always been in the top few issues for the last number of years.
According to YouGov:
1. The Economy
2. Immigration
3. Health

Pre the election last year Ipsos had:
1. NHS
2. Economy
3. immigration

The only reason that immigration has moved up the list is the racist dogwhistling by Reform
 
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Rusty Nails

Country Member
My memories are of mortgages, high interest rates, unreliable cars, job insecurity, strikes, power cuts, and having a young family to feed, clothe etc 😊

I have all those memories, except the kids which came along in the 80s, and still remember the fun exceeding the worries...probably because we waited to have kids as we were having fun.
 
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