Starmer's vision quest

[AuroraSaab]

I would be inciting people to violence by being deliberately provocative, which is a criminal offence.

Are you understanding this yet?

Lots of people are deliberately provocative. How is burning a book incitement to violence?
It's insensitive, sure, and some people will take offence, but surely you can see that prosecuting book burning is edging towards reintroducing blasphemy as a crime?

 

[icowden]

Lots of people are deliberately provocative. How is burning a book incitement to violence?
It's insensitive, sure, and some people will take offence, but surely you can see that prosecuting book burning is edging towards reintroducing blasphemy as a crime?

But we don't prosecute book burning which somewhat undermines your point.

If I burn the book and publicise it, people may turn up and begin being violent. The Police may or may not arrest me. If it is clear that I did it entirely to provoke people to attack me, then they will prosecute me. If it is apparent that I didn't do that, I was just celebrating national secular book day by burning religious tomes (for example), then they might just tell me I was being bloody stupid and not to do it again for my own saftety, as well as pointing out that I should be sensitive to the views of other people.

 

[Psamathe]

The Isa thing might backfire, a little at least. People who are risk averse are not going to take their money out of a safe Isa account and put it in volatile stocks and shares. Many will remember when tech stocks and shares Isas tanked and people lost money. They'll put it in other accounts and pay the tax if necessary.

Building societies rely on the Isa money to fund loans and mortgages so there might be a knock on effect there too.

Just been listening to BBC Newscast podcast (episode 19 May 2025 33:00 into podcast) and they are interviewing Ms Reeves and she was asked about the Cash ISA £20k limit and she absolutely categorically said she was not going to change the ISA limit from the £20k. She said "I'm certainly not going to reduce that limit" but she was not absolutely categoric about what sort of ISA she also said "no, I'm not going to reduce the limit of what people can put into an ISA" - but in true political terms whilst they were discussing Cash ISAs she only said ISA so she could worm out of it by saying "I've not reduced the limit of what people can put into an ISA, just restricted it to a Stocks & Shares ISA" but that would be a lot of worming and word play (but these Labour seem very happy about that).

Ie the very strong meaning everybody (including the interviewer) will have taken from that bit of the interview is that the £20k Cash ISA limit will not be reduced but forensically analyse the words and she almost accidentally didn't quite say exactly that.

Ian

 

[AuroraSaab]

It's seems a bit odd that the police should be visiting people who are doing things within the law in your example (burning books on national book burning day) rather than visiting the people threatening the safety of such people.

Calling book burning of holy books in itself an incitement to violence is edging towards blasphemy laws imo. I haven't seen anything in the news that either the Manchester or London Qur'an buring incidents were accompanied by calls to violence.

 

[Psamathe]

Re: Starmer's EU Reset
Looks like the new agreements with EU are ideal for Farage. The actual "deal" is again very little, will have no significant impact yet Farage is now appearing all over our TV screens full of outrage. Deal has given him loads of endless airtime, he really couldn't ask for more.

Ian

 

[AuroraSaab]

Just been listening to BBC Newscast podcast (episode 19 May 2025 33:00 into podcast) and they are interviewing Ms Reeves and she was asked about the Cash ISA £20k limit and she absolutely categorically said she was not going to change the ISA limit from the £20k. She said "I'm certainly not going to reduce that limit" but she was not absolutely categoric about what sort of ISA she also said "no, I'm not going to reduce the limit of what people can put into an ISA" - but in true political terms whilst they were discussing Cash ISAs she only said ISA so she could worm out of it by saying "I've not reduced the limit of what people can put into an ISA, just restricted it to a Stocks & Shares ISA" but that would be a lot of worming and word play (but these Labour seem very happy about that).

Ie the very strong meaning everybody (including the interviewer) will have taken from that bit of the interview is that the £20k Cash ISA limit will not be reduced but forensically analyse the words and she almost accidentally didn't quite say exactly that.

Ian

I still think she'll go down the route of making it only tax free if it's stocks and shares isas. That's only an attractive proposition to those who can afford to lose their money. Anybody remember tech isas? Those saving only small amounts or who can't afford to risk their capital will put in in safe bank accounts and take the hit on the interest rate or tax.

And thus the scheme that was meant to help the less well off save money disappears. She could lower the tax free level to much lower but I doubt she will.

 

[matticus]

It's seems a bit odd that the police should be visiting people who are doing things within the law in your example (burning books on national book burning day) rather than visiting the people threatening the safety of such people.

It would be reasonable to do both (as you very well know).

There will be a judgement call on both - until I see evidence to the contrary, I'm happy to trust UK police to mostly get those calls right.

YMMV

 

[AuroraSaab]

Depends on the nature of the police visit. If it's to warn someone that there is a realistic threat to their life over an action they made that was within the law, that's one thing. If it's to warn someone about doing something that was within the law just because others find it offensive, that's different. It's not the police's job to enforce the moral codes of other individuals or groups.

 

[matticus]

Depends on the nature of the police visit. If it's to warn someone that there is a realistic threat to their life over an action they made that was within the law, that's one thing. If it's to warn someone about doing something that was within the law just because others find it offensive, that's different. It's not the police's job to enforce the moral codes of other individuals or groups.

I agree!

 

[CXRAndy]

Depends on the nature of the police visit. If it's to warn someone that there is a realistic threat to their life over an action they made that was within the law, that's one thing. If it's to warn someone about doing something that was within the law just because others find it offensive, that's different. It's not the police's job to enforce the moral codes of other individuals or groups.

It seems recently the latter is being used quite often

 

[CXRAndy]

View: https://x.com/juneslater17/status/1924568100889931978?t=p3QvK0KfBwnKfJ46e4bEqw&s=19

 

[Fab Foodie]

Re: Starmer's EU Reset
Looks like the new agreements with EU are ideal for Farage. The actual "deal" is again very little, will have no significant impact yet Farage is now appearing all over our TV screens full of outrage. Deal has given him loads of endless airtime, he really couldn't ask for more.

Ian

Considering that the majority of people in the UK have finally realised that Brexit was absolute bollocks, he can huff and puff all he likes. It's been universally appreciated by Industry bodies as a very positive move that will encourage growth by decreasing red tape (oh the irony) making it easier to do business with our closest neighbors.
Farage and his rhetoric is a busted flush and it's time somebody had the balls to stand-up and proclaim that.

 

[CXRAndy]

Farage and his rhetoric is a busted flush and it's time somebody had the balls to stand-up and proclaim that

Go on then, trot along to speakers corner 👍

 

[AndyRM]

If someone is arrested for causing an ''public disorder'' because he burns Quran's and the same doesn't happen if that person would burn Bibles, it doesn't really matter what the laws says does it?


Agree however how many poeple need police protection for criticism on Jews? and christianity? and Muslims/islam? the answer is little to none for the first two and almost always for the last. same goes for less criminal things like social pressure on muslim women to cover up etc. etc. sounds all nice claiming yu can criticisme any religion but the point of the video was you really defacto can't.

Away and talk sh!te.

All religion is fair game, there's no law against slagging religion in the UK.

 

[CXRAndy]

Tommy Robinson will be released in a few days according to news outlets