Starmer's vision quest

[Psamathe]

When you say "catch some non-VPN providers", do you mean all mobile users and quite a few other ISPs as well? In other words millions of people.

No. Some ISPs providing eg home broadband can use CGNATs for IPv4 due to the shortage of IPv4 addresses. These ISPs are switching to IPv6 which is less restrictive. Gigaclear is one such provider. They tend to do it only on home users as it constrains some functionality some businesses use. It's only some ISPs and easy to check if you are behind a CGNAT.

 

[PurplePenguin]

Depends on the device. But it's not an annoyance as:
1. It need only apply on registration/once off verification ie user ID associated with country so logon from anywhere and country associated with registration regulations apply.

2.Lots of constraints already apply without annoying people eg I run ad blockers and quite a few sites refuse to give out content due to adblocker - I'm not paying so fair enough if a free content provider choses that model.

3. Using proxy/VPN/CGNAT/shared IP detection, then such good geolocation spoofing to match the proxy server IP would be beyond most of the smartest kids. Add that most (not all) VPNs allow user to select country not location within country so geo matching gets harder.

4. It all becomes much more platform dependent eg iPhone/iPad would be all but a non-starter.

5. With anything there are ways to get round it but harder it is made fewer will be able to do it. Closing the VPN option off blocks the bypass that many would be capable of doing.

1. This just means I need to circumvent it once. Even easier.
2. A browser like Brave just gets around it all.
3. Any system that can verify IP address to GPS location will be used in reverse.
4. This feels like quite a flaw in your system.
5. Someone else does the hard bit. I don't know how Brave nukes everything, I just know it does.

 

[Psamathe]

1. This just means I need to circumvent it once. Even easier.
2. A browser like Brave just gets around it all.
3. Any system that can verify IP address to GPS location will be used in reverse.
4. This feels like quite a flaw in your system.
5. Someone else does the hard bit. I don't know how Brave nukes everything, I just know it does.

Server can tell what is blocked and make decisions accordingly (eg Brave browser).

Detecting CGNAT/VPN/etc. on IP does not use location but IP route (which cannot be spoofed).

If it's considered only doing it on registration is easier to bypass, do it for every logon. Automated and taken no time, delays nothing and user won't be impacted.

 

[PurplePenguin]

No. Some ISPs providing eg home broadband can use CGNATs for IPv4 due to the shortage of IPv4 addresses. These ISPs are switching to IPv6 which is less restrictive. Gigaclear is one such provider. They tend to do it only on home users as it constrains some functionality some businesses use. It's only some ISPs and easy to check if you are behind a CGNAT.

My mobile IP address is nowhere near my location.

 

[Psamathe]

My mobile IP address is nowhere near my location.

It's not about geolocating your IP address. That's not how you test for CGNAT/VPN/etc.

On device location services don't use your IP address to provide location.

 

[PurplePenguin]

It's not about geolocating your IP address. That's not how you test for CGNAT/VPN/etc.

On device location services don't use your IP address to provide location.

Indeed, my phone knows where I am, well it would if I asked it. My IP address doesn't know where I am. It thinks I'm up north.

 

[BoldonLad]

Starmer will go for the least invasive (and thus lowest protection) so that when the Social Media billionaries ignore them it's "only a minor violation".

And in 3 months Starmer will start another consultation after which vague laws will be passed to OFCOM for conversion into regulations. OFCOM will take 1-2 years negotiating and consulting with the Social Media companies after which regulations will be specified and the Social Media Companies with have 12+ months to implement ... by which time Social Media will be irrelevant and it'll be AI LLMs that are causing the issues so "back to square one" ... and with Starmer continually spouting "We introduced regulations to protect children from Social Media companies" (all be that they were far too late, totally ineffective but worked politically)

Is that a prediction that Burnham will not win the by-election? 😂

 

[Psamathe]

Is that a prediction that Burnham will not win the by-election? 😂

I don't think that aspect will be playing much part in Burnham's by-election. Not paying massive attention to it but sounds more of a Labour vs Reform with complexities from vote splitting minor candidates (who are far from winning but can stop those candidates leaning towards their stance getting elected).

 

[BoldonLad]

On the subject of under 18s taking or viewing nude or "indecent" images, there was a chap interviewed on BBC News who claimed his company already had software to achieve the blocking of such images. He claimed the software worked by interacting with the phone camera and preventing inappropriate images being recorded. It also interacted with the web, to identify "incoming" inappropriate images and block them. What was not explained was:

1. how this software decided which images were inappropriate
2. how the device (ie phone, computer, tablet) was going to identify the age of the user.
3. would the age restriction apply to the device or the user, if the user, how would the device determine who was actually using it

IMHO, yet another knee jerk reaction which will produce a useless flawed law.

 

[BoldonLad]

I don't think that aspect will be playing much part in Burnham's by-election. Not paying massive attention to it but sounds more of a Labour vs Reform with complexities from vote splitting minor candidates (who are far from winning but can stop those candidates leaning towards their stance getting elected).

I meant the assumption that Starmer will still be PM in three months time, as per the bold bit 😊

 

[briantrumpet]

I don't think that aspect will be playing much part in Burnham's by-election. Not paying massive attention to it but sounds more of a Labour vs Reform with complexities from vote splitting minor candidates (who are far from winning but can stop those candidates leaning towards their stance getting elected).

Some doorstep feedback is that people who had been thinking about voting for Reform are being drawn to Burnham, I suspect not least as he's less of a twat that the Reform candidate.

 

[Psamathe]

On the subject of under 18s taking or viewing nude or "indecent" images, there was a chap interviewed on BBC News who claimed his company already had software to achieve the blocking of such images. He claimed the software worked by interacting with the phone camera and preventing inappropriate images being recorded. It also interacted with the web, to identify "incoming" inappropriate images and block them. What was not explained was:

1. how this software decided which images were inappropriate
2. how the device (ie phone, computer, tablet) was going to identify the age of the user.
3. would the age restriction apply to the device or the user, if the user, how would the device determine who was actually using it

IMHO, yet another knee jerk reaction which will produce a useless flawed law.

I agree. Starmer's required timescales are ludicrous and just show how he doesn't understand technology. It's now summer and he wants this done by Autumn. Functionality that could represent a major security vulnerability (a reason past attempts were abandoned), could block useful important content (as past attempts have).

Starmer's not even properly specified what he needs so he's expecting manufacturers to implement something not properly specified that risks being a major security vulnerability on a impossible timescale. In the next few days Apple will be releasing beta versions for their Autumn version of iPhone/iPad ... and Starmer not even specified what he needs them to do (and it's complex and needs no end of pre releases, alpha then betas then public betad then RC testing of an aspect most beta testers will have disabled (as they are over-18).

 

[briantrumpet]

I agree. Starmer's required timescales are ludicrous and just show how he doesn't understand technology. It's now summer and he wants this done by Autumn. Functionality that could represent a major security vulnerability (a reason past attempts were abandoned), could block useful important content (as past attempts have).

Starmer's not even properly specified what he needs so he's expecting manufacturers to implement something not properly specified that risks being a major security vulnerability on a impossible timescale. In the next few days Apple will be releasing beta versions for their Autumn version of iPhone/iPad ... and Starmer not even specified what he needs them to do (and it's complex and needs no end of pre releases, alpha then betas then public betad then RC testing of an aspect most beta testers will have disabled (as they are over-18).

I don't think he understands this any more than he understands the wider implications of swallowing the AI industry's hype and giving them free rein.

 

[Pross]

On the subject of under 18s taking or viewing nude or "indecent" images, there was a chap interviewed on BBC News who claimed his company already had software to achieve the blocking of such images. He claimed the software worked by interacting with the phone camera and preventing inappropriate images being recorded. It also interacted with the web, to identify "incoming" inappropriate images and block them. What was not explained was:

1. how this software decided which images were inappropriate
2. how the device (ie phone, computer, tablet) was going to identify the age of the user.
3. would the age restriction apply to the device or the user, if the user, how would the device determine who was actually using it

IMHO, yet another knee jerk reaction which will produce a useless flawed law.

On your second point, when I set up my work phone a few months ago I had to do age verification in order to enable certain features so it’s already happening.

 

[BoldonLad]

On your second point, when I set up my work phone a few months ago I had to do age verification in order to enable certain features so it’s already happening.

I was not disputing if it is all ready happening, I was querying the effectiveness of it, and, how a device (phone/tablet/etc) can be "locked" to the verified individual.