Strike!

[Hitchington]

I assume you mean me?

If you seriously think that the morale and retention of the nursing profession will be improved by striking, they you are wrong. As a result of this strike people will die, then like a cancer the perception of the profession will be eroded and the public will suddenly be 'my nan died, she was only 92, she had her whole life ahead of her, and she died because they want more money, they are selfish'.

Please tell me how that will improve the morale of the staff in the NHS.

Ricky Gervais called. He wants his joke back.

 

[Salty seadog]

I wonder how Sunak's austerity/public service cuts are looking right now....

On track in a twisted way, the Tories have started they want to cut the civil service by 90,000.

 

[Hitchington]

On track in a twisted way, the Tories have started they want to cut the civil service by 90,000.

Starting with the 89,000 civil servants who have reported bullying, harassment, sexual assault and creepy weird memos written in the style of a 18th century fob by certain Tory ministers.

 

[newfhouse]

Well, trying to make sure it doesn't happen by voting against it would seem a pretty good way of trying to reduce it's effectiveness wouldn't it?

I made a very clear distinction between voting against and respecting the outcome. I know you understand the difference.

Accept the current offer on the table of around 5%

I did ask what can be done other than acquiescence…

I have said it over and over, but none of you listen, NO GOVERNMENT of any colour has ever adequately funded nurses pay or the whole NHS to deliver what we as a population want it to deliver.

Time to start, no? How about, at the very least, we get back to level pegging? As it is many of you colleagues are being asked to work five days and, effectively, only get paid for four.

 

[Rusty Nails]

Because there will be some people who voted to strike, and those who voted not to strike (or I think you describe them as 'scabs'). On some of the nursing Twitter feeds and boards there are already people who are describing those who voted not to strike in similar language.

So I would suggest that far from bringing the profession together in a mass of action, there will be rifts in the profession after this vote, people not wanting to work with 'scabs', it has happened before in nursing.

That will damage morale beyond belief.

Voting against a strike is not the same as being a scab. This is just how votes work.

 

[Deleted member 49]

I'm sure the vote to strike was a difficult enough decision to make.Most of us know they will now face full on attacks from the usual right wing media/hate mob as expected.
But after what they've been through, especially with the pandemic. I find it hard to understand how anyone wouldn't support them.

 

[winjim]

If my union voted to strike, I would strike, whether I had personally voted for it or not. Otherwise what's the point? The clue's in the name, 'union'.

As it is, during any heath service strikes there will be discussion between executives, managers, union reps and members about how to facilitate strike action while ensuring continuity of service and nobody's going to be called a scab for crossing a picket line. Last time I went on strike I think we were only allowed to picket for something like an hour or two in the morning anyway.

 

[BoldonLad]

Rather interesting, this idea of accepting and supporting the majority view in a ballot.

 

[fozy tornip]

Rather interesting, this idea of accepting and supporting the majority view in a ballot.

Amen to that. Which is why 40 years of the Tory right griping about the decisive 1975 referendum, a crushing 2 to 1 in favour of remaining in the EU, is frankly bizarre.

 

[winjim]

Rather interesting, this idea of accepting and supporting the majority view in a ballot.

If it's Brexit you're on about then my quick internet search and back of a fag packet arithmetic suggests that it wouldn't meet the 40% threshold required for strike action in the public services**.

A public sector strike ballot is fantastically more democratic* than whatever the hell that car crash of a vote was in 2016 because it's required to be by law.

Link to government propaganda, published after they'd essentially destroyed any sensible notions of actual democracy in this country.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/...ct-people-from-undemocratic-industrial-action


*'democratic'
**willing to be corrected, I did work it out very roughly.

 

[stowie]

Accept the current offer on the table of around 5%, but make it clear that the negotiations continue again from there. Accepting one deal to show willing, keep the public on side and use that goodwill as leverage.

Not sure that would work, or how effective public goodwill is as leverage. If it was, I would have expected nurses to get huge pay rises during and immediately after the pandemic. Accepting the low offer on the table and thinking "I can negotiate" from here wouldn't work in my job and I cannot imagine it would work in anyone else's either especially if the threat of strike wasn't a serious concern.

Of course the public could join in as well and reduce the pressure on the NHS by not going to ED for minor ailments, presentation for a twisted ankle (easily treated with 2 paracetamol and some ice) a 'persistent cough' (which had been persistent for about 90 minutes) and someone who 'thought she had been bitten by a dog' (do you have a dog-no, have you been near a dog-no, why do you think you have been bitten a dog then- my ankle is a bit red)! Then, when we have made their relatives better agreeing to have them home when they are well and most incredibly on Tuesday evening, not calling one of my colleagues a 'fucking ugly slag' when she was trying to get him to move from a cubicle to a wheelchair to go for an x-ray.

There will be clearly some people just turning up completely inappropriately. But you might find 8-12 hour waits in A+E are a pretty big incentive to stay at home. And your first example of twisted ankle. That was my daughter a few weeks ago. Unable to walk and an ankle with a lump the size of a cricket ball on the side. Doctors thought it was broken, only the X-rays showed it was severely sprained. This is surely exactly what A+E is for? But for many A+E is the go-to place because GPs are totally unavailable. Hospitals are squeezed from both sides. People present who really should be at a GP if only they could get an appointment at all and beds are being blocked by patients who cannot be discharged because the social care is unavailable. Agree completely with the last one, the abuse must be terrible. I saw people in A+E who were clearly mentally unwell and needing social care rather than A+E.

Nurses have effectively taken a 5% cut since 2010 with pay freezes. Now inflation is supercharging the problem. Nurse and doctor shortages cost NHS England £3bn in agency staff last year, a rise of 20%. None of this is sustainable, and reducing real terms pay whilst conditions worsen is going to end in disaster both economically and for quality of care.

 

[Bromptonaut]

Of course the public could join in as well and reduce the pressure on the NHS by not going to ED for minor ailments, presentation for a twisted ankle (easily treated with 2 paracetamol and some ice) a 'persistent cough' (which had been persistent for about 90 minutes) and someone who 'thought she had been bitten by a dog' (do you have a dog-no, have you been near a dog-no, why do you think you have been bitten a dog then- my ankle is a bit red)! Then, when we have made their relatives better agreeing to have them home when they are well and most incredibly on Tuesday evening, not calling one of my colleagues a 'fucking ugly slag' when she was trying to get him to move from a cubicle to a wheelchair to go for an x-ray.

Ten years ago I fell from my Brompton or rather the Brompton performed a flick roll beneath me close to my car on the station car park. I hit the ground hard on my left hip and shoulder. After initial shock and urge to pass out/vomit passed I could just walk but not get into the car.

Mrs B and my daughter were summoned and managed to get me into a more 'sitty uppy' car and take me to A&E. The crabby 'gatekeeper' there decided I'd 'only fallen off a bike' and sent me to minor injuries where I was queued behind a lass who'd broken a fingernail at dance class and some kids with football bruises etc.

Three hours later and X Ray found I'd broken the neck of my femur AND my collar bone.

 

[Mr Celine]

Accept the current offer on the table of around 5%, but make it clear that the negotiations continue again from there. Accepting one deal to show willing, keep the public on side and use that goodwill as leverage.

Further to my previous question asking if you'd ever negotiated a deal for a car have you ever negotiated anything?

Alright mum I'll go to bed now but we'll continue the negotiations from there.

Did that work?

 

[newfhouse]

Rather interesting, this idea of accepting and supporting the majority view in a ballot.

Brexit analogy? Doesn’t work. I mean I can’t frustrate or damage Brexit by driving straight past the new border controls even if I want to, can I?

 

[BoldonLad]

Amen to that. Which is why 40 years of the Tory right griping about the decisive 1975 referendum, a crushing 2 to 1 in favour of remaining in the EU, is frankly bizarre.

Other than saying 1975, wasn’t that a join, rather than stay-in vote, I agree 100%