The whiff is growing- £2k worth of football tickets for Mr Starmer

[spen666]

On my reading Johnson's offending goes beyond late declaration and into territory where outright failure until 'rumbled' and possible reluctance to disclose in full even then might be 'charged'.

In my own previous work I was a Civil Servant. As such I was expected to declare gifts and hospitality.

A month late declaring a box of biscuits is one thing; minor reprimand.

Accepting bottles of Malt Whisky and only 'remembering' to declare them when evidence reached my boss's ears; written warning if I'm lucky.

Both are offences though!

 

[newfhouse]

The point could not be simpler...if both made late declarations then both gave committed the offence.

Is that it? Does your point have any point meaning or is it simply an observation about superficial similarities? If the latter, thanks for letting me know.

 

[Xipe Totec]

Very clever to falsify a quote because it says something you don't give a fraction of a barely-existing rat's arse about

Falsified That For You. 👍

 

[spen666]

Is that it? Does your point have any point meaning or is it simply an observation about superficial similarities? If the latter, thanks for letting me know.

My point is very simple

If both were late with their declarations then both have committed the offence


It really is a very simple point.

I really have no idea why you are struggling to understand something so simple.

Indeed, it is not even a controversial statement

 

[newfhouse]

I really have no idea why you are struggling to understand something so simple.

I understand what you say but I don’t understand why.

 

[icowden]

My point is very simple
If both were late with their declarations then both have committed the offence

And my point is also very simple. Yes, both have committed an offence but Starmer is at the lowest end of the scale where a simple apology and rectification will suffice whereas Johnson is at the very top of the scale where a full apology to Parliament is required.

So - we aren't saying that Starmer shouldn't have done it, just that on the grand scale of things he is at the "minor" punishment whereas Boris is literally as high as you can get.

I'm sure you will appreciate that for Criminal Offences the Sentencing Council sets out a range of punishments from almost nothing to quite a lot depending on how you behaved. Starmer has lots of mitigation and no aggravating factors, is at the lowest end of the scale and pled guilty immediately.

Boris has no mitigation, lots of aggravating factors and pled not guilty until he was convicted. Thus he gets the maximum and it is clear that his character is unbefitting of a Prime Minister who *should* be leading by example.

 

[AndyRM]

You know what's cute about this niche corner of the internet?

Anyone trying to come up with some kind of defence for Boris Johnson. Especially by playing him off against Starmer.

 

[Bromptonaut]

Seems as though David Lammy is in trouble over late reporting too:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jun/20/david-lammy-investigated-mp-standards-watchdog
Do they have to self report to the Commissioner or is somebody dobbing them in?

 

[icowden]

Do they have to self report to the Commissioner or is somebody dobbing them in?

I don't know. Do you think it's possible that some Conservative SPADS are doing some work to cast the labour party in a bad light?

 

[BoldonLad]

I don't know. Do you think it's possible that some Conservative SPADS are doing some work to cast the labour party in a bad light?

Surely, neither side would stoop so low?

 

[spen666]

Seems as though David Lammy is in trouble over late reporting too:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jun/20/david-lammy-investigated-mp-standards-watchdog
Do they have to self report to the Commissioner or is somebody dobbing them in?

My question would be why there are "so many" MPs falling foul of the rules ( irrespective of political partisanship).
Are those elected to represent us unable to report any gifts or payments they receive? If so, are they competent to by MPs
In none of the cases reported does it seem there would be any negative financial consequences for reporting on time - eg extra tax to pay etc. So why are MPs not reporting this ontime

 

[Bromptonaut]

My question would be why there are "so many" MPs falling foul of the rules ( irrespective of political partisanship).

I refer my learned friend to my previous analogy of registering hospitality.

This is about declaring things so that we're aware of what might influence our MPs. In their case it goes beyond accepting gifts of biscuits or attending a lunch or dinner and includes earnings for speaking etc. It's got nothing to do with paying tax; freelance/self employed earnings have to be accounted for to HMRC just like anyone else.

Reporting this stuff timeously and accurately is a task for MP's admin. In an ideal world an MP has a designated staffer who's on top of this, picks up what he can from office records and, as the appropriate deadline approaches sits down with the MP and says 'anything for the Register this month?'.

In the real world of overwhelming constituency work, an MP who is politically brilliant but an organisational disaster area*, and the general blood and guts of the battlefield stuff falls between the slats.

*I worked for a while with a Professor who was constantly sought out for his expertise. Don't ask him to complete his own expenses form though. Book him a hotel and he'd not retain the detail; call from Heathrow asking to be 'reminded' where he was staying in London.

 

[BoldonLad]

I refer my learned friend to my previous analogy of registering hospitality.

This is about declaring things so that we're aware of what might influence our MPs. In their case it goes beyond accepting gifts of biscuits or attending a lunch or dinner and includes earnings for speaking etc. It's got nothing to do with paying tax; freelance/self employed earnings have to be accounted for to HMRC just like anyone else.

Reporting this stuff timeously and accurately is a task for MP's admin. In an ideal world an MP has a designated staffer who's on top of this, picks up what he can from office records and, as the appropriate deadline approaches sits down with the MP and says 'anything for the Register this month?'.

In the real world of overwhelming constituency work, an MP who is politically brilliant but an organisational disaster area*, and the general blood and guts of the battlefield stuff falls between the slats.

*I worked for a while with a Professor who was constantly sought out for his expertise. Don't ask him to complete his own expenses form though. Book him a hotel and he'd not retain the detail; call from Heathrow asking to be 'reminded' where he was staying in London.

Don't MPs get an allowance for employing someone to do these "chores", indeed, don't many (if not all) of them, employ a family member to do this (I know the MP for the Constituency adjacent to ours does). It does greatly concern me if someone who is asking me to vote for them to run the Country, cannot even organise his own affairs (with help if needed).

 

[Rusty Nails]

My question would be why there are "so many" MPs falling foul of the rules ( irrespective of political partisanship).
Are those elected to represent us unable to report any gifts or payments they receive? If so, are they competent to by MPs
In none of the cases reported does it seem there would be any negative financial consequences for reporting on time - eg extra tax to pay etc. So why are MPs not reporting this ontime

I know someone who worked in an MP's office and they told me that usually this sort of admin form-filling is left to the office staff to complete.
The problem could be the MP not letting them know, although the staff are aware of the MP's outside activities already, or it could be the admin staff not being on top of their jobs in these cases.
As you say it is not about fiddling money. To keep things open and above board it shouldn't happen, but I doubt that admin is, or needs to be, a strength of an MP.
For isolated and relatively minor offences a slap on the wrist usually suffices, but if it becomes a regular occurrence or involves potential corruption then more serious action could take place I believe.

This is not the same as MP's claiming expenses they are not entitled to or abusing the system.

 

[icowden]

As you say it is not about fiddling money. To keep things open and above board it shouldn't happen, but I doubt that admin is, or needs to be, a strength of an MP.
For isolated and relatively minor offences a slap on the wrist usually suffices, but if it becomes a regular occurrence or involves potential corruption then more serious action could take place I believe.

It can be about fiddling money in a way. The purpose of declaring interests is to make sure that it is clear where an MP is getting money and beneficial gifts, so that we can be sure that they are not being bought. So for example, Sajid Javid trying to hide his non-dom status and off-shore funds whilst working in the Treasury on policy directly affecting non-doms and off shore funds by not declaring his interest looks mighty suspicious.

In the case of Johnson it's fairly clear that rather than trying to hide his earnings, he is just massively incompetent and lazy:-

She said: “However, these payments cannot have been entirely unexpected and, given that the house has made explicit that it expects members to fulfil their responsibilities conscientiously, it would have been prudent for Mr Johnson to have had an administrative system in place to ensure his compliance with those rules. It appears that he did not arrange that until after I had begun my inquiry.”

This is very consistent with his history.

In the case of Lammy and Starmer, the items are minor and a bit late. In the case of Johnson the items are major and taking the michael. IN the case of the Saj, they are just shady.