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CXRAndy
Senior Member
They are all whining about it
multitool
Pharaoh
I've just watched the Trump-Zelensky Oval office press conference.
It was extraordinary.
It's clear what is actually going on. Trump/Vance have tried to extort Zelensky. Zelensky has said no, so Trump and Vance humiliated Zelensky in public in the Oval office.
Zelensky will walk away, and good on him.
It was extraordinary.
It's clear what is actually going on. Trump/Vance have tried to extort Zelensky. Zelensky has said no, so Trump and Vance humiliated Zelensky in public in the Oval office.
Zelensky will walk away, and good on him.
CXRAndy
Senior Member
He may walk out of the whitehouse with his head held high.
If the USA pull out, Zelensky will face a Russian firing squad.
Good for him, well done Zelensky 🤦♂️
multitool
Pharaoh
I don't think this moment can be underestimated in terms of consequences for the future.
Within the next 4 years we will see China invade Taiwan, and Russia attack the Baltic states. Putin will be laughing his árse off at what he has just seen.
Trump won't be around forever, but the damage he can do in 4 years is incredible.
However, I predict a massive counter reaction to Trump from within the US. He is already the most unpopular President for decades. This will send it into orbit.
Within the next 4 years we will see China invade Taiwan, and Russia attack the Baltic states. Putin will be laughing his árse off at what he has just seen.
Trump won't be around forever, but the damage he can do in 4 years is incredible.
However, I predict a massive counter reaction to Trump from within the US. He is already the most unpopular President for decades. This will send it into orbit.
Ian H
Legendary Member
Trump won't want to be seen to fail, so the next few days just might be 'interesting'.
I would have agreed but these days I think what is more important to Trump is that everybody is talking about him, that he's the centre of attention. Being liked or how he is perceived is much further down the list.
And his humiliation of Zelenskyy has ensured that everybody is talking about Trump, from his perspective that what he wants.
As I posted before, silly of UK to have given formal invitation for State Visit (within the last week Charles has been talking of the importance of supporting Ukraine).
Ian
HMS_Dave
Regular
Trump and Vance acting like Roman Emperors, kiss their hands, beg on your knees, be thankful...
Vance resorting to the be "thankful" act after being corrected and schooled on the war in Ukraine by Zelensky, without offering a counter argument, is a revealing moment and one which momentarily shook Vance out of character, on camera, revealing his very shallow veneer which he saves for when the camera's are not rolling, im sure. I think Vance has in that moment destroyed his own political ambitions beyond this current administration.
I don't think this will change the course of the "deal" ultimately, but, has exposed the weak underbelly of the deal, those involved in it, the misinformation surrounding it, and Trump and Putin's curious and troubling connection.
Perhaps then, Zelensky's intention all along, if that were to be the case, there would have been no better place to do it.
Vance resorting to the be "thankful" act after being corrected and schooled on the war in Ukraine by Zelensky, without offering a counter argument, is a revealing moment and one which momentarily shook Vance out of character, on camera, revealing his very shallow veneer which he saves for when the camera's are not rolling, im sure. I think Vance has in that moment destroyed his own political ambitions beyond this current administration.
I don't think this will change the course of the "deal" ultimately, but, has exposed the weak underbelly of the deal, those involved in it, the misinformation surrounding it, and Trump and Putin's curious and troubling connection.
Perhaps then, Zelensky's intention all along, if that were to be the case, there would have been no better place to do it.
All uphill
Well-Known Member
Marco Rubio looked uncomfortable throughout. My prediction is that he will be gone within a month.
matticus
Guru
Completely agree.
Folks can watch it here (10mins, but really any 1min will show you Trump's extraordinary character):
View: https://x.com/AmbJohnBolton/status/1895545749896822953?t=Sq5MdwTrWj5JqdUs4P_uXQ&s=09
stowie
Well-Known Member
He might be a businessman but not a great one. Trump runs on zero sum games. He wins and someone loses. He is uniquely maladapted for politics with a skin that is paper thin. Government is not business.
The various incarnations of European Union have been actively supported by the US. The competition trope is absurd, European Union was set up to stop all of us continually killing each other with increasingly industrially apocalyptic methods.
Trump is the sort of businessman than spends £20 to win £5. He works in business non-sequiturs with each "deal" done without context.
US allies in Asia will be evaluating the US position carefully. Living next to China cannot afford mistakes. US support will be - at best - tempered with an over-the-shoulder glance at the big guy next door. Taiwan is done - China is assured of US inaction - Taiwan's future lies in China's hands.
Putin aggression is rewarded and only Europe can defend. If Putin invades NATO baltic states no-one can doubt which side Trump will favour, he is Putin's man. Europe needs to step up (every country) and go from 50% Ukraine funding to 100%. It will be doable but not without pain. Europe will need US onside enough not to sabotage the effort by withdrawing logistics support from US manufactured arms equipment used in Europe. Longer term, Europe will need to hold our defence in our remit, with arms production onshore. Ukraine is now a roll of the dice. Escalation within Europe will happen and how that plays out is anyone's guess.
At the least the US will no longer be the trusted ally. Countries will align because of their power but only insomuch as they do the same with China who will benefit from rapid thawing of relationships.
The Zelensky debacle is for one aim - Zelensky to be replaced with a Putin friendly puppet. Then Trump gets his "bigly" mineral deal which is a pathetic and paltry reward but probably plays at home. Another win with a heavy price tag for the world and the US.
I hope I am completely wrong in my fears above. I doubt I am completely correct but fear I am not far off.
Plus, together with much of his other stuff, is creating a massive opportunity for China to fill where the US is withdrawing from across much of the rest of the world.
Ian
BoldonLad
Old man on a bike. Not a member of a clique.
- Location
- South Tyneside
We should withdraw invitation of State Visit.
