Two-tier? JSO vs Dover protest

[farfromtheland]

Pretty standard tactic.

I meant more the black bloc look, which started life as a leftie/anarcho thing. I suppose it could be claimed that there's a righty/anarcho thing goong on.

Likely a backroom boys bonus tactic to smear the former 'black bloc' by association, while stirring up hate.
Not that i was ever a black bloc advocate - too much like joyriding, but their target was property not people.

 

[monkers]

How I hate this sort of thing, not that I witnessed it, but I'm talking about a tendency, and more inclined to trust a friend of an eyewitness. Social media culture stirring trouble for effect. Probably the cause of more strife than anything else these days. Feeds 'divide and rule' and ignorance.

Couldn't agree more friend,

 

[AuroraSaab]

The video footage tells a different story.

The incident occurred when a group of women met peacefully, as is everybody's right, in a public square. The trans activists, including the men in black bloc, turned up to counter demonstrate - as is their right. It's not anybody's right to assault/manhandle/force women out of the way, which is what happened.

Back to the topic. It's usually a local police decision as to how any demonstration is dealt with. At times they will take decisions which inevitably look wrong afterwards simply because on an operational level they don't have the numbers or equipment in place to do much other than maintain order at that moment. I would expect future demos on the south coast to be more heavily policed and some dealt with pre emptively.

 

[C R]

The incident occurred when a group of women met peacefully, as is everybody's right, in a public square. The trans activists, including the men in black bloc, turned up to counter demonstrate - as is their right. It's not anybody's right to assault/manhandle/force women out of the way, which is what happened.

So, this is not a large group of far left activists marching militia like wearing balaclavas disrupting traffic to a large ferry port, after causing alarm and distress in a village nearby where they assembled the night before with multiple reports to the police, including from the local MP. Your example is two smallish groups, known purposefully goad each other getting into an argument in the middle of a square.

 

[AuroraSaab]

So it's just a question of numbers then. There was no argument btw. Just men in balaclavas trying to forcibly remove a woman from a seat.
What's the number at which people are allowed to be intimidated by men in balaclavas? What's the number at which people blocking public places becomes a problem?
Again, it seems to come down to whether you personally like them or not.

 

[C R]

So it's just a question of numbers then. There was no argument btw. Just men in balaclavas trying to forcibly remove a woman from a seat.
What's the number at which people are allowed to be intimidated by men in balaclavas? What's the number at which people blocking public places becomes a problem?
Again, it seems to come down to whether you personally like them or not.

No, it isn't a question of numbers, you know very well that the two situations are not equivalent. There are no large scale left wing militia like marches needing police intervention because there are no left wing militias, balaclava clad or otherwise. What there are is elderly people arrested under counter terrorist legislation for holding cardboard signs in London, with extra police drafted in from other forces to deal with the extra volume of arrests. What there is a militia taking over a village overnight being ignored by the police, followed by said militia marching unimpeded the following day in Dover, also being ignored by the police.

Still waiting for my quote.

 

[AuroraSaab]

Which quote? I'm still waiting for mine.

 

[C R]

Which quote? I'm still waiting for mine.

See upthread, post 74.

You are correct. You didn't, my apologies. Now about this

Direct quote, please.

 

[Rusty Nails]

So it's just a question of numbers then. There was no argument btw. Just men in balaclavas trying to forcibly remove a woman from a seat.
What's the number at which people are allowed to be intimidated by men in balaclavas? What's the number at which people blocking public places becomes a problem?
Again, it seems to come down to whether you personally like them or not.

Not just numbers, but the planning and organisation into large numbers.

It's futile and silly trying to define a particular number at which people are allowed to be intimidated, but there is absolutely no doubt that an organised group of 100 or more is much more intimidating than a few people using the same tactics. The police should enforce the law, no matter the numbers.

It is totally unacceptable, no matter how many are involved but a different, more worrying element, is added when it becomes a mass tactic, and where a lot of the protesting is based around racism.

 

[AuroraSaab]

The police should enforce the law, no matter the numbers.

I agree. My point is that the argument that they enforce it against left wingers but not against right wingers doesn't stand up.

Direct quote, please.

You've complained that some activists were removed for blocking roads (PA) and say some activists were too small in number for people to worry about (trans activists) - that suggests you support some activities at demonstrations when you like those doing them. I think everybody has a right to demonstrate peacefully within the law, even the ones I don't like. The ones breaking the law, be that blocking roads or ferry terminals or assaulting women, should be removed by the police, whether I like them or not. Whether they do so depends on various factors, of which the police being in cahoots with rightwingers is not one imo.

I think the police were likely caught out by the demonstration and took an operational decision not to do much other than keep as much of a lid on it as they could. The next one, if there is one, may well be different.

 

[Pblakeney]

Not just numbers, but the planning and organisation into large numbers.

It's futile and silly trying to define a particular number at which people are allowed to be intimidated, but there is absolutely no doubt that an organised group of 100 or more is much more intimidating than a few people using the same tactics. The police should enforce the law, no matter the numbers.

It is totally unacceptable, no matter how many are involved but a different, more worrying element, is added when it becomes a mass tactic, and where a lot of the protesting is based around racism.

Numbers? A single person can be intimidating.

 

[briantrumpet]

A single person can be intimidating.

A married person can be just as intimidating. Probably more so if you're married to them.

 

[C R]

and say some activists were too small in number for people to worry about (trans activists)

I said it was a couple of guys goading and being goaded by another group. That's hardly a militia. Can I have a direct quote of me saying that I am fine with the police ignoring a balaclvad left wing militia?

 

[C R]

I think the police were likely caught out by the demonstration and took an operational decision not to do much other than keep as much of a lid on it as they could. The next one, if there is one, may well be different.

If you really believe that had palestine action done anything like the black shorts did in Dover last weekend the police would have allowed themselves to be "caught out" I have a bridge to sell, going cheap, only one careful owner.

And to top it up it took almost a week for the home secretary to tell the police that they should enforce the law. The same home secretary that gleefully endorsed the arrest of elderly people for holding cardboard placards.

 

[AuroraSaab]

Palestine Action were already on the police radar though. Again, you dismiss intimidating men in balaclavas assaulting a woman as just 'goading'. As with all these men, left and right, the aim is to intimidate and deter. You don't need hundreds to do that, just a few. You find it easy to condemn one lot but can't bring yourself to condemn the others.