War with Russia

[Pblakeney]

"Russian President Vladimir Putin suggested Ukraine be placed under a form of temporary administration.
Those remarks were carried by Russian news agencies on Friday.
Putin says the administration would allow for new elections in Ukraine and for talks with a new government on a peace treaty."

Yup! A deal has been done with Trump. (See the Trumpster thread for context).

 

[briantrumpet]

"Russian President Vladimir Putin suggested Ukraine be placed under a form of temporary administration.
Those remarks were carried by Russian news agencies on Friday.
Putin says the administration would allow for new elections in Ukraine and for talks with a new government on a peace treaty."

Yup! A deal has been done with Trump. (See the Trumpster thread for context).

I think Europe and Ukraine should release a statement saying that Russia be placed under temporary administration until free and fair elections happen there. Obviously not going to happen as it's unenforceable, but just as meaningful as Trump-Russia's statement about Ukraine: they seem to think they can strike a deal to carve up Ukraine when they've got no power to do so (well, without the US actually sending in hostile forces to make it happen).

 

[Pblakeney]

I think Europe and Ukraine should release a statement saying that Russia be placed under temporary administration until free and fair elections happen there. Obviously not going to happen as it's unenforceable, but just as meaningful as Trump-Russia's statement about Ukraine: they seem to think they can strike a deal to carve up Ukraine when they've got no power to do so (well, without the US actually sending in hostile forces to make it happen).

The "deal" as I see it.

Russia takes Ukraine while USA takes Greenland. No opposition from either side.

 

[briantrumpet]

The "deal" as I see it.

Russia takes Ukraine while USA takes Greenland. No opposition from either side.

Quite possibly, but it's a meaningless deal, unless they are going to enforce it militarily, which Russia famously hasn't been able to do. Trump saying "You can have Ukraine!" doesn't change that, and unless Trump is going to send troops into Greenland, he's not going to have that either. It's like Trump's Executive Orders - he says a load of shït in them, but they are just aspirations until they are enacted.

 

[Pblakeney]

Quite possibly, but it's a meaningless deal, unless they are going to enforce it militarily, which Russia famously hasn't been able to do. Trump saying "You can have Ukraine!" doesn't change that, and unless Trump is going to send troops into Greenland, he's not going to have that either. It's like Trump's Executive Orders - he says a load of shït in them, but they are just aspirations until they are enacted.

Trump could quite easily cripple Ukraine's defence simply by cutting off supply and intelligence.
I can see the US military base being "expanded".

 

[briantrumpet]

Trump could quite easily cripple Ukraine's defence simply by cutting off supply and intelligence.
I can see the US military base being "expanded".

And that's where Europe recognises it needs to step up rapidly, replacing reliance on Starlink, and so on. I don't know what the current figures are but it's not been a one-man US show from the outset, though obviously it's been a significant part of the equation so far. I'd agree that if Europe doesn't present a well-funded way to fill the gaps should the US completely withdraw support, then it would be challenging.

As it stands, it's a military stalemate in Ukraine, even without massive US support.

 

[RecordAceFromNew]

Sadly i think of better sad i agree that the more likely outcome of the current talks is that Putin largely of fully gets what he wants

Unsure why you bothered writing paragraphs after paragraphs trying to prove me wrong, when they don't align with your own conclusion above which agrees with mine.

I guess it is a kind of therapy? You probably also find it comforting for not coping alone - as evidenced by Rusty finding it appropriate to say less than nothing, the snail attributing Mongol invasions to the Chinese, and brian celebrating the political prowess of a clown who chose the destruction of his country and people over neutrality:

2. So one rule for you and a different one for others.

Apart from invading, or attempting to invade Japan, Korea, Vietnam, Siberia, Tibet, Lhasa, Java etc.

If nothing else, Zelenskyy does seem to be very savvy politically...

Aeschylus wrote 'the first casualty of war is truth' in 500 BC, and Asch paradigm, siege mentality etc. probably did the rest. Funny thing is all it takes is to have a modicum of intelligence, really trying to stand in each side's shoes, and see which angle makes better sense. Rewards? You will find the future more predictable, and the present less frustrating.

I doubt few will be interested, but this Swiss bloke made a heroic attempt to collect proven references from both sides to assess the conflict.

Do you mean exactly this or are you talking about growth in GDP PPP?

This.

Due to extensive financialization, lower home ownership, etc. in the West, the real distance is likely even more stark - it is far from crazy to believe the actual size of China's economy is already that of US' and EU's COMBINED.

A Trumpian epiphany* seemingly unappreciated by the current crop of donkeys leading Europe, is without prosperity there is no security, far more so than the other way round as peddled by the Neocon hymn sheet. Modern China is proof of that, so was the USSR.

* well globe-trotting billionaire businessmen can have different perspectives to career political ideologues, I suppose... But alas it is one thing to know the problem and another to solve it.

 

[Pblakeney]

And that's where Europe recognises it needs to step up rapidly, replacing reliance on Starlink, and so on. I don't know what the current figures are but it's not been a one-man US show from the outset, though obviously it's been a significant part of the equation so far. I'd agree that if Europe doesn't present a well-funded way to fill the gaps should the US completely withdraw support, then it would be challenging.

As it stands, it's a military stalemate in Ukraine, even without massive US support.

Yup. Extended Europe is going to have to step up to the plate. To use an American term.

 

[Rusty Nails]

Unsure why you bothered writing paragraphs after paragraphs trying to prove me wrong, when they don't align with your own conclusion above which agrees with mine.

I guess it is a kind of therapy? You probably also find it comforting for not coping alone - as evidenced by Rusty finding it appropriate to say less than nothing, the snail attributing Mongol invasions to the Chinese, and brian celebrating the political prowess of a clown who chose the destruction of his country and people over neutrality:







Aeschylus wrote 'the first casualty of war is truth' in 500 BC, and Asch paradigm, siege mentality etc. probably did the rest. Funny thing is all it takes is to have a modicum of intelligence, really trying to stand in each side's shoes, and see which angle makes better sense. Rewards? You will find the future more predictable, and the present less frustrating.

I doubt few will be interested, but this Swiss bloke made a heroic attempt to collect proven references from both sides to assess the conflict.




This.

Due to extensive financialization, lower home ownership, etc. in the West, the real distance is likely even more stark - it is far from crazy to believe the actual size of China's economy is already that of US' and EU's COMBINED.

A Trumpian epiphany* seemingly unappreciated by the current crop of donkeys leading Europe, is without prosperity there is no security, far more so than the other way round as peddled by the Neocon hymn sheet. Modern China is proof of that, so was the USSR.

* well globe-trotting billionaire businessmen can have different perspectives to career political ideologues, I suppose... But alas it is one thing to know the problem and another to solve it.

Better late than never, I suppose.

 

[First Aspect]

Yup. Extended Europe is going to have to step up to the plate. To use an American term.

Should properly be go to bat.

What would the French say? They don't play baseball or cricket. Something to do with pastry, is my guess. Rise to the occasion?

Come to think of it, if we "put the big boy trousers on", do the Germans say, time to wear die lederhosen?

I'll stop now, this is a serious thread.

 

[AndyRM]

Well, it looks like the Germans are stepping up...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cdjyjlkewr2o

Which for an essentially de-militarised country is a pretty huge deal.

 

[Pblakeney]

While Trump is pissed of at Putin he is also unhappy with Zelensky.
He is mostly pissed off that he is not getting the minerals ASAP. He doesn't care about peace.

 

[Pinno718]

It would be much better for all and sundry for the war to continue in Ukraine. There is evidence that Russia is using ordinary cars for transportation of troops and weapons:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/davida...to-battle-with-an-anti-tank-mine-in-the-back/

It all points to a country that is struggling to maintain this conflict. Any cessation would allow Russia to re-convene, re-arm, re-finance. The result of that would mean future aggression and attempts to expand Russian territory. Europe has the opportunity to bring Russia to it's knees, which I think i imperative. Sacrifice a few people now or sacrifice a lot more in the future and continue this East-West charade?
Times Radio (not my cup of Tea but despite being a Tory bugle, is very critical of the GOP fascists) interviewed an ex UK general who stated that Russia has only enough men and resources for 1 more year and that by the end of March, Russian losses will exceed 100k (they have). The Russian army has struggled to co-ordinate and communicate with North Korean troops (who da thunk?!).

I honestly think Putin is quietly preying for a Ukrainian peace deal (he has to look tough and like the winner) because Russia is being crippled and the finger will point to him - internally. We have no idea and cannot presume that Putin is not under pressure and there are no internal mob noises - especially the Oligarchs who have their yachts sitting doing nothing and their finances severely restricted. Alongside Trump, Putin, can ostensibly force Zelensky to capitulate. Without Trump, he can't. It's really the only major card he has left.

Trump won't care one jot if Ukraine capitulates with a peace deal and may think that he has orchestrated a 'tremendous and beautiful deal for the Ukrainian people...' but if Russia installs a caretaker administration, the Russians wouldn't let the Americas within a 1000 miles of Ukraine, such is the OSG's stupidity.
Maybe even the thicko Vance's and Waltz's have realised just that, hence Trumps change in stance..

 

[CXRAndy]

allow Russia to re-convene, re-arm, re-finance.

Tell Germany to stop buying Russian oil and gas. They've done more for Russia's war effort than any aid Europe has sent

 

[Pblakeney]

It would be much better for all and sundry for the war to continue in Ukraine. There is evidence that Russia is using ordinary cars for transportation of troops and weapons:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/davida...to-battle-with-an-anti-tank-mine-in-the-back/

It all points to a country that is struggling to maintain this conflict. Any cessation would allow Russia to re-convene, re-arm, re-finance. The result of that would mean future aggression and attempts to expand Russian territory. Europe has the opportunity to bring Russia to it's knees, which I think i imperative. Sacrifice a few people now or sacrifice a lot more in the future and continue this East-West charade?
Times Radio (not my cup of Tea but despite being a Tory bugle, is very critical of the GOP fascists) interviewed an ex UK general who stated that Russia has only enough men and resources for 1 more year and that by the end of March, Russian losses will exceed 100k (they have). The Russian army has struggled to co-ordinate and communicate with North Korean troops (who da thunk?!).

I honestly think Putin is quietly preying for a Ukrainian peace deal (he has to look tough and like the winner) because Russia is being crippled and the finger will point to him - internally. We have no idea and cannot presume that Putin is not under pressure and there are no internal mob noises - especially the Oligarchs who have their yachts sitting doing nothing and their finances severely restricted. Alongside Trump, Putin, can ostensibly force Zelensky to capitulate. Without Trump, he can't. It's really the only major card he has left.

Trump won't care one jot if Ukraine capitulates with a peace deal and may think that he has orchestrated a 'tremendous and beautiful deal for the Ukrainian people...' but if Russia installs a caretaker administration, the Russians wouldn't let the Americas within a 1000 miles of Ukraine, such is the OSG's stupidity.
Maybe even the thicko Vance's and Waltz's have realised just that, hence Trumps change in stance..

Also telling that Putin's main demands were for re-opening trade. ie financial.