War with Russia

[Pross]

Like requiring the leader initiating war (or "special military operations") lead their troops into action, at the front of the front lines. No leader at the front of the front lines then no troops prepared to put their lives at risk for that leader (and many wars seem only that some leader wants to rule over more, to grow their empire ... not for the benefit of the people living in invaded areas).

It's too easy for some leader to sit in a nice plush warm safe office miles away to sign orders causing deaths of many of their own citizens.

Were that to be established practice then I suspect we'd have a lot fewer wars.

Yeah, but sometimes the leader has bone spurs and therefore much as they'd love to lead from the front they have to hang around the golf course being frustrated.

 

[matticus]

What Pinno said.
And certainly doesn't include any other regions.

With respect, you're not being clear. Please clarify how Crimea fits into this:

The only way this ends is with Russia controlling Ukraine, or Russia conceding. There will be no middle ground.

[I ask because whoever ends up with Crimea, would require the other side to concede it.]

 

[Pblakeney]

With respect, you're not being clear. Please clarify how Crimea fits into this:


[I ask because whoever ends up with Crimea, would require the other side to concede it.]

I concede that Crimea is a sticky point. Negotiations can happen involving that but Putin is not one for negotiating.
If Putin had settled on Crimea then we wouldn't be where we are today. I also don't think he'll stick with Ukraine if he wins that one.

 

[Rusty Nails]

Yeah, but sometimes the leader has bone spurs and therefore much as they'd love to lead from the front they have to hang around the golf course being frustrated.

He doesn't hang around the golf course, he puts in more hours than ever on the Presidency, and his bone spurs seem to not cause him any problems as his medicals say he is in marvellous condition...especially his brain!

I know because he said so yesterday.

 

[Pross]

Just saw a post from the MOD naming a British soldier killed in Ukraine yesterday. It says he was Parachute Regiment but I would guess that was his 'parent unit'. Apparently killed in an accident observing a weapons test away from the frontline.

 

[matticus]

I concede that Crimea is a sticky point. Negotiations can happen involving that but Putin is not one for negotiating.

[So you can't even agree on what the two irreconcilable positions actually are. OK, hard to argue with your crazy viewpoint in that case. But anyway ...]

Are you saying that if I dig into the history books, I won't find any negotiated agreements signed by Putin? Never ever ever??

 

[Rusty Nails]

Just saw a post from the MOD naming a British soldier killed in Ukraine yesterday. It says he was Parachute Regiment but I would guess that was his 'parent unit'. Apparently killed in an accident observing a weapons test away from the frontline.

Sadly, the rate that weapons are being developed and adapted for this conflict makes it more likely that weapons tests might be rushed more than under normal circumstances and more accidents will happen.

 

[Pblakeney]

[So you can't even agree on what the two irreconcilable positions actually are. OK, hard to argue with your crazy viewpoint in that case. But anyway ...]

Are you saying that if I dig into the history books, I won't find any negotiated agreements signed by Putin? Never ever ever??

Of course you can. Start with the Minsk agreement and how that has panned out.
Tells me that he simply cannot be trusted. Full stop.

 

[Psamathe]

I concede that Crimea is a sticky point. Negotiations can happen involving that but Putin is not one for negotiating.

[So you can't even agree on what the two irreconcilable positions actually are. OK, hard to argue with your crazy viewpoint in that case. But anyway ...]

Are you saying that if I dig into the history books, I won't find any negotiated agreements signed by Putin? Never ever ever??

I suspect "negotiation" is a question of degree and that Putin has compromised to a (very) small degree in Trump's initial proposal eg %ages Trump Corp gets vs Putin Corp on the profits.

How much Putin will negotiate/compromise might largely depend on Trump. Trump's current stand of Putin gets 99% of what he wants isn't pressuring him. Were Trump to take a different stand and start strong sanctions then Putin might be more ready to negotiate.

 

[Pinno718]

Of course you can. Start with the Minsk agreement and how that has panned out.
Tells me that he simply cannot be trusted. Full stop.

There's a long list of failed Putin 'peace deals'. He's never honoured a single one. Chechnya is another to Minsk. Probably the most deaths.

 

[Pinno718]

With respect, you're not being clear. Please clarify how Crimea fits into this:


[I ask because whoever ends up with Crimea, would require the other side to concede it.]

The point I made actually supports your view.

 

[Pinno718]

Russian losses exceed 1.2m.
Moscow Times: Russia moves to limit exemptions for military conscripts. I wonder why.
There are reports of Russian soldiers walking over dead bodies on the front line as they have gained very small amounts of territory but the price they have paid is a massacre of their own troops. A hollow 'victory'.
Russian soldiers have been serving longer than any long serving involuntary troops since 1888. Many Russian soldiers are complaining that they are now slaves.
Putin is not releasing any soldiers contrary to conscription rules and contracts.

BBC reported that Pokrovsk was '...about to fall blah blah blah... and '... this marked a turning point in the war...' blah blah blah. Well, it hasn't and it's been an almost 15 month assault and Russia still hasn't taken the town.

 

[matticus]

Of course you can. Start with the Minsk agreement and how that has panned out.
Tells me that he simply cannot be trusted. Full stop.

Oh, so now the problem is that you can't trust him? there's always a yeahbut with you!
You said he doesn't negotiate - clearly shown to be bullshit

 

[Pblakeney]

Oh, so now the problem is that you can't trust him? there's always a yeahbut with you!
You said he doesn't negotiate - clearly shown to be bullshit

How's the "peace deal" going so far? He has offered zero concessions.
Anyway, I can't be bothered with the to and fro as we are going nowhere. Time will tell for sure. Get back to me when there is sustained peace.

 

[matticus]

Anyway, I can't be bothered with the to and fro as we are going nowhere. Time will tell for sure. Get back to me when there is sustained peace.

Not my job mate, sorry!

The reason for this "to-and-fro" is that you oh-so-confidently challenged my post:

I might be naive here, but it seems that a Nobel was there for the taking, if he would park his greed and just look for a peaceful solution with no profit margin for DJT.
A far easier conflict to sort out than anything in the Middle East; there are basically just two - nominally democratic - nations to deal with, and both want an end to the thing.

PBlakeney: The problem that will not be resolved is that whatever is an acceptable end for one side is unacceptable to the other.

You haven't provided anything to support your challenge, just a prolonged ramble about peace being a bit tricky. n.b. DJT doesn't need to establish 10 (or even 5) years of sustained peace to get his prize.