Psamathe
Legendary Member
What makes you think they are not hitting their intended targets?
War with Russia
- Thread starter Milzy
- Start date
Page may contain affiliate links. Please see terms for details.
Beebo
Legendary Member
Im giving them the benefit of the doubt. It won’t all be deliberate. Cock ups happen.
Pinno718
Legendary Member
..and there's plenty of Russian air defence missiles that have gone astray.
Last week, when Ukraine hit the Moscow oil refinery, there were innumerable air defence missiles that hit apartment blocks all over Moscow. Putin didn't cry wolf nor send any messages of condolence.
In the event that this was a Ukrainian missile/drone, it would not have been a deliberate attack.
Ukraine has denied hitting the dormitory.
Last edited:
Pinno718
Legendary Member
This is a priest blessing the drone operators in the 'student' campus that was later, apparently struck by Ukraine:
This is this mysterious bystander who seems to pop up all over the place when something happens. He popped up after the 'dormitory' was hit and was interviewed by Russian state TV:
Here he is again after a drone strike somewhere in Russia:
...and here he is on state TV reporter and investigative journalist:
Sometimes he is an innocent witness:
Here's some scenes from the 'student campus' where there was a curious lack of ambulances and only 1 fire engine spotted in all of the footage:
This is a screenshot of part the promotional video which recruits individuals to the 'student campus':
This is one of those poor innocent students inside the 'dormitory' who may have perished in the terrible drone attack by the evil Ukrainians:
Here's a couple more of those poor, innocent students inside the campus. Let me introduce Tweedle dee sky and Tweedle dumski:
This is this mysterious bystander who seems to pop up all over the place when something happens. He popped up after the 'dormitory' was hit and was interviewed by Russian state TV:
Here he is again after a drone strike somewhere in Russia:
...and here he is on state TV reporter and investigative journalist:
Sometimes he is an innocent witness:
Here's some scenes from the 'student campus' where there was a curious lack of ambulances and only 1 fire engine spotted in all of the footage:
This is a screenshot of part the promotional video which recruits individuals to the 'student campus':
This is one of those poor innocent students inside the 'dormitory' who may have perished in the terrible drone attack by the evil Ukrainians:
Here's a couple more of those poor, innocent students inside the campus. Let me introduce Tweedle dee sky and Tweedle dumski:
Attachments
Last edited:
briantrumpet
Timewaster
A *very* long analytical read, and too much for me in one sitting before breakfast... but cautiously optimistic
https://understandingwar.org/resear...s-herald-the-start-of-a-new-phase-of-the-war/
https://understandingwar.org/resear...s-herald-the-start-of-a-new-phase-of-the-war/
UglyWithaSidePart
Regular
Shamefully, I put it through Chatgpt, the tl;dr is that Ukraine are not only very effective with drone strikes, they're following up with ground ops immediately after a strike.
That;s exactly the intention, also to break Troop morale. Russia issued a warning to diplomats journalist etc. so likely and ever bigger attack is incoming.
probably more but that's what we know, however if we then look at the targets Iran, Russia etc. choose we see an clear difference these mofo's deliberately chose civilian targets.
Gaza has a population off an estimated 2 million death tol numbers vary greatly but let's say it's 100k Hamas and friends did not deny the estimation off over 60% of this number in actually being combat-tans most commonly Hamas and friends fighters dressed in civilians clothes, red cross outfits that stuff. (wonder if those countries recognizing Palestine, also have the guts to follow up on war crimes. probably don't
But point is math isn't mathing if you claim Isreal is hitting the wrong targets, if you would have 500k casualties or something you clearly have a point. but that's not the case.
agreed
Pinno718
Legendary Member
That's the strategy - strike air defences and then go for the targets.
Does that mean that I don't have to read the long article?
UglyWithaSidePart
Regular
It appears a very well written article, probably worth your time.
briantrumpet
Timewaster
Essentially the bold text summarises the plain text underneath, which has a lot more detail.
briantrumpet
Timewaster
I think you'd like the detail.
Pinno718
Legendary Member
I conceded and read the article.
My long spiel. (if you are going to oblige me to read that article).
Not a lot was said about Russia's ability to fund the conflict in the light of severely depleted weaponry, personnel and manufacturing facilities with a back drop of economic pain and sanctions affecting supply of critical parts - there's no suggestion that Russia, however innovative they could be, might suffer economic collapse before any 'tactical levelling' occurs..
The war for Russia isn't being lost in the skies or on the battlefield, they lost the war within the first few months as Ukraine's resistance has exposed the fragile infrastructure that has been under funded going back, arguably, to pre-WW1 years. The ICBM missiles chucked at Ukraine* to very little effect after collating all the scattered parts revealed circuitry from the 1960's. Russia, despite having a massive personnel advantage, struggled to contain Germany who were fighting on numerous fronts and were out numbered. Hitler's forces, like Napoleon, succumbed to geography and the elements but not to a superior military force. Estimates are that Russia lost between 8 and 11m men during WW2. They were infamously woefully short of weaponry in WW1.
The humiliation of the 3 day SVO [Russian acronym] (SMO - special military operation) has proved to be a litmus test and revealed not only the bubble that Putin (and Russians) have lived in but the flawed belief that they were an indomitable super power with unlimited military resources and were a nuclear threat. The so called 'super power' is so endemically corrupt and rife with propaganda, that the reality is that years of this system of governance mixed with corruption has left Russia weak to the core.
First: it's plain to see that the cold war leeched so much money from the state and that the 'nuclear arsenal was most probably a fraction of what we thought it was and the weaponry, sub standard.
Second, Russia has been for years 'high on it's own supply' of propaganda and arrogance.
.
Third and most importantly (it ties in with the above), corruption is rife. It's expected that the heads of whatever pyramid within the pyramid will syphon off monies for a house that's very presentable (at the lower tiers) to yachts, mansions and apartments in Manhattan/Monaco/Tuapse/Sochi (take your pick) at the higher levels. Each head of whatever - be it military production or rail network maintenance, has to report to the Kremlin to say what a good job they are doing and how great Putin and Russia is whilst scattering residual funding to the project or the scheme or the proletariat for the most basic municipal provision. Nothing ever comprehensive and nothing ever completed without compromise (bar expensive shopping facilities in Moscow and St Petersburg). Any large scale project military or otherwise is held up with lashings of state TV endorsed greatness. The reality something far less or at least, 'progress' is very sporadic and gilded by careful media.
Relating directly to military aggression, every facet of the military from procurement, production, personnel, equipment, logistics (the list you can add with logic) have all been compromised due to the inherent corruption at every level. The training of military personnel is contracted and short and the basic equipment they use is sub standard (re.: flak jackets bought from China that don't do their job). The war is being lost in a cocktail of myopia, propaganda, inefficiency and a lack of cohesive co-ordination because the truth in any situation is rarely spoken, even in that laborious manner they seem to hold in high regard. The truth has landed many in prison or fallen foul to open windows.
Dwindling oil revenue that used to prop up the military, the state, the public spending and the syphoned but which the Ukrainians are decimating at a rate the Russians cannot repair is stark. If the war stopped now, the Russians would need up to 10 years to reach oil production that could fund the war and address state deficits, but only theoretically due to years of underfunding and corruption. I cannot emphasise the corruption enough and I cannot emphasise just how impoverished the country has become (outside of Moscow, St Petersburg and a few other places) with rubbish piling up, the dreadful state of roads, rail, bridges, schools, hospitals, sewerage systems - unless being used for the military. Plus people living in dilapidated concrete blocks built in the 50's, 60's, 70's on a shoe string. The author of that article did not mention glaring social issues in Russia nor the perilous state of the economy.
There are innumerable videos filmed by citizens in towns all over Russia begging Putin for basic services. The author never mentioned the dire state of these hospitals and schools in the various Oblasts. Yes, I realise the article was a long piece about warfare and strategy but the conflict and it's ultimate outcome cannot be viewed without the political and social backdrop in which it operates and from where it was born: The Ukrainians are fighting for their very existence, the Russian aggression is simply propagandised ego and muscle flexing - key to why the Ukrainians are innovating at a rate that the Russian military cannot compete with. One motive is far greater than the other.
The author also did not emphasise enough the near 1.5m loss of able bodied men in a country that already had population decline. This does not bode well for any future restructuring or prosperity. Never mind staffing a war effort with personnel heavy demand such is the brutal Russian strategy where men are often sent out to the 'meat grinder' to absorb cost at Ukrainian expense. Think about how sustainable that strategy is in military, manning and socio-economic terms.
*In an act that can only be described as desperate and in the light of dwindling weaponry, Russia launched ICBM's at Kyiv: 3 no less. A single Oreshnik missile cost an estimated $256m dollars if r&d is taken into consideration. Ukrainian FPV drones cost between $20 and $50k. One Oreshnik missile hit some lock ups on the outskirts of Kyiv and even Russian war bloggers were making jokes about it.
They are useless without nuclear war heads and are only accurate to +/- 5 miles.
My long spiel. (if you are going to oblige me to read that article).
Not a lot was said about Russia's ability to fund the conflict in the light of severely depleted weaponry, personnel and manufacturing facilities with a back drop of economic pain and sanctions affecting supply of critical parts - there's no suggestion that Russia, however innovative they could be, might suffer economic collapse before any 'tactical levelling' occurs..
The war for Russia isn't being lost in the skies or on the battlefield, they lost the war within the first few months as Ukraine's resistance has exposed the fragile infrastructure that has been under funded going back, arguably, to pre-WW1 years. The ICBM missiles chucked at Ukraine* to very little effect after collating all the scattered parts revealed circuitry from the 1960's. Russia, despite having a massive personnel advantage, struggled to contain Germany who were fighting on numerous fronts and were out numbered. Hitler's forces, like Napoleon, succumbed to geography and the elements but not to a superior military force. Estimates are that Russia lost between 8 and 11m men during WW2. They were infamously woefully short of weaponry in WW1.
The humiliation of the 3 day SVO [Russian acronym] (SMO - special military operation) has proved to be a litmus test and revealed not only the bubble that Putin (and Russians) have lived in but the flawed belief that they were an indomitable super power with unlimited military resources and were a nuclear threat. The so called 'super power' is so endemically corrupt and rife with propaganda, that the reality is that years of this system of governance mixed with corruption has left Russia weak to the core.
First: it's plain to see that the cold war leeched so much money from the state and that the 'nuclear arsenal was most probably a fraction of what we thought it was and the weaponry, sub standard.
Second, Russia has been for years 'high on it's own supply' of propaganda and arrogance.
.
Third and most importantly (it ties in with the above), corruption is rife. It's expected that the heads of whatever pyramid within the pyramid will syphon off monies for a house that's very presentable (at the lower tiers) to yachts, mansions and apartments in Manhattan/Monaco/Tuapse/Sochi (take your pick) at the higher levels. Each head of whatever - be it military production or rail network maintenance, has to report to the Kremlin to say what a good job they are doing and how great Putin and Russia is whilst scattering residual funding to the project or the scheme or the proletariat for the most basic municipal provision. Nothing ever comprehensive and nothing ever completed without compromise (bar expensive shopping facilities in Moscow and St Petersburg). Any large scale project military or otherwise is held up with lashings of state TV endorsed greatness. The reality something far less or at least, 'progress' is very sporadic and gilded by careful media.
Relating directly to military aggression, every facet of the military from procurement, production, personnel, equipment, logistics (the list you can add with logic) have all been compromised due to the inherent corruption at every level. The training of military personnel is contracted and short and the basic equipment they use is sub standard (re.: flak jackets bought from China that don't do their job). The war is being lost in a cocktail of myopia, propaganda, inefficiency and a lack of cohesive co-ordination because the truth in any situation is rarely spoken, even in that laborious manner they seem to hold in high regard. The truth has landed many in prison or fallen foul to open windows.
Dwindling oil revenue that used to prop up the military, the state, the public spending and the syphoned but which the Ukrainians are decimating at a rate the Russians cannot repair is stark. If the war stopped now, the Russians would need up to 10 years to reach oil production that could fund the war and address state deficits, but only theoretically due to years of underfunding and corruption. I cannot emphasise the corruption enough and I cannot emphasise just how impoverished the country has become (outside of Moscow, St Petersburg and a few other places) with rubbish piling up, the dreadful state of roads, rail, bridges, schools, hospitals, sewerage systems - unless being used for the military. Plus people living in dilapidated concrete blocks built in the 50's, 60's, 70's on a shoe string. The author of that article did not mention glaring social issues in Russia nor the perilous state of the economy.
There are innumerable videos filmed by citizens in towns all over Russia begging Putin for basic services. The author never mentioned the dire state of these hospitals and schools in the various Oblasts. Yes, I realise the article was a long piece about warfare and strategy but the conflict and it's ultimate outcome cannot be viewed without the political and social backdrop in which it operates and from where it was born: The Ukrainians are fighting for their very existence, the Russian aggression is simply propagandised ego and muscle flexing - key to why the Ukrainians are innovating at a rate that the Russian military cannot compete with. One motive is far greater than the other.
The author also did not emphasise enough the near 1.5m loss of able bodied men in a country that already had population decline. This does not bode well for any future restructuring or prosperity. Never mind staffing a war effort with personnel heavy demand such is the brutal Russian strategy where men are often sent out to the 'meat grinder' to absorb cost at Ukrainian expense. Think about how sustainable that strategy is in military, manning and socio-economic terms.
*In an act that can only be described as desperate and in the light of dwindling weaponry, Russia launched ICBM's at Kyiv: 3 no less. A single Oreshnik missile cost an estimated $256m dollars if r&d is taken into consideration. Ukrainian FPV drones cost between $20 and $50k. One Oreshnik missile hit some lock ups on the outskirts of Kyiv and even Russian war bloggers were making jokes about it.
They are useless without nuclear war heads and are only accurate to +/- 5 miles.
Last edited:
briantrumpet
Timewaster
Thanks Pinno. To pick on one point,cues, I saw stuff about the Oreshniks too, and it wasn't complimentary. Indicative of general dysfunction, as you've identified.
I think you win the longest NCAP post award, as well as the most conscientious student prize.
All uphill
Slow and steady
Just wanted to say that I enjoy the long reads. Food for thought.
Thanks @briantrumpet and @Pinno718
Thanks @briantrumpet and @Pinno718
Pinno718
Legendary Member
A follow up to the bombing of a student campus where the Russians claimed that Ukraine killed 17 14 to 17 year olds.
Well, this campus like many has been taken over by the military and it's a training academy for the Rubikon drone division. There were no under 18's there. The Russians aren't even good at the propaganda: Here is a line of grieving relatives mourning the deaths of the young kids killed at his facility:
Except that the people in the pictures were contrived. Contrived so badly that they included the image of a gay porn star:
Well, this campus like many has been taken over by the military and it's a training academy for the Rubikon drone division. There were no under 18's there. The Russians aren't even good at the propaganda: Here is a line of grieving relatives mourning the deaths of the young kids killed at his facility:
Except that the people in the pictures were contrived. Contrived so badly that they included the image of a gay porn star:
