What is the point of prison?

[dutchguylivingintheuk]

There is an immediate need to tackle climate change.
It has been a marginal issue for way too long.

That's an opinion not a fact.

The time for proper preventative action is passed.
Were at best looking at remedial action , slowing down the worst effects.

again opinion not a fact

It already affects people very badly in the global south.
We have already derelicted our duties to future generations.

again opinion not fact. But also this topic is not about the climate there are already 3 or 4 topics about that i believe?

We can try to influence parliament, and occasionally do, but too slowly, resistance to change there is strong.
The powers that be are very bound by the lobbying powers of vested interest.
And too slow to act, if they act at all.

They just had two weeks of climate talks, i beleive they called it cop26 they have been doing that for sometime but off course according to the protestors it's not enough, there would be nothing to protest about if it was..

Civil society groups putting pressure on governments, is our best last hope imo.

Active but non violent protest keeps the issue front and centre.

So how does creating more pollution by blocking cars making them run stationary help the cause of ''preventing (human made) climate change'' how about advocating the government to at the very least allow plant based diesel like HVO and HVO+ to be sold? Speaking of which as an environmentally involved farmer i assume your equipment runs on this diesel alternative?(as it works in 90% of diesel vehicles even modern ones) or is it just like those highway blockers, there own houses badly isolated and full of derelict diesel cars?

 

[mudsticks]

That's an opinion not a fact.

again opinion not a fact

again opinion not fact. But also this topic is not about the climate there are already 3 or 4 topics about that i believe?

They just had two weeks of climate talks, i beleive they called it cop26 they have been doing that for sometime but off course according to the protestors it's not enough, there would be nothing to protest about if it was..

So how does creating more pollution by blocking cars making them run stationary help the cause of ''preventing (human made) climate change'' how about advocating the government to at the very least allow plant based diesel like HVO and HVO+ to be sold? Speaking of which as an environmentally involved farmer i assume your equipment runs on this diesel alternative?(as it works in 90% of diesel vehicles even modern ones) or is it just like those highway blockers, there own houses badly isolated and full of derelict diesel cars?

They are not opinions they're scientifically agreed facts .
I wish they were only opinions.
.
Yes I know about COP.

As a long time environmentally concerned farmer I was there for most of it .

No 'theyre' not doing enough, they're kicking the can down the road.
But we try to keep up the pressure.

I was there as part of a coalition advocating for more climate friendly farming, land use, and socially just food production.


The impact of agriculture, and the solutions it can provide wasn't mentioned nearly enough in the official talks.

We did our best to draw more attention to it, but opportunities to speak are limited.

I also went on the march on Saturday when 100,000 people from all walks of life were there to show their concern.

I'm happy to have been there, glad to have shown my face for the future.


The last part is just the same old same old.
"Oh look the people trying to change the system, have to live in it" specious twaddle.

Yes I did used to run my tractor on veg oil.

But as I've mentioned to you many times (and you've ignored it) in other threads 'ordinary diesel' now has to have a percentage of veg oil included within it , so recycled veg oil is no longer available.


Fwiw my diesel usage is very minimal.

I'd love to have an electric tractor , not available to me yet , maybe one day huh?

None of which is relevant to the need and right to press and protest for greater action.

Some people on your home country have got the right idea.

Hopefully we will see more of this kind of thing over here.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-57257982

 

[dutchguylivingintheuk]

They are not opinions they're scientifically agreed facts .
I wish they were only opinions.

''
There is an immediate need to tackle climate change.
It has been a marginal issue for way too long. ''


''
The time for proper preventative action is passed.
Were at best looking at remedial action , slowing down the worst effects. ''

''
It already affects people very badly in the global south.
We have already derelicted our duties to future generations.
''
Are not an scientific qualification, nor a fact like the glass milk is half full or a wheel is round.

Yes I know about COP.

As a long time environmentally concerned farmer I was there for most of it .

No 'theyre' not doing enough, they're kicking the can down the road.
But we try to keep up the pressure.

I would say they are chhosing the easy answers instead of the long term better sollutions.

I was there as part of a coalition advocating for more climate friendly farming, land use, and socially just food production.


The impact of agriculture, and the solutions it can provide wasn't mentioned nearly enough in the official talks.

We did our best to draw more attention to it, but opportunities to speak are limited.

I also went on the march on Saturday when 100,000 people from all walks of life were there to show their concern.

I'm happy to have been there, glad to have shown my face for the future.

Meanwhile it only makes the richer get richer an the remainer well, they pay for it. And if they don't there blamed for the steak they eat on sunday, while most of the pollution comes from the countries companies etc. now claiming there gonna save the planet.. excuse my sceptism, something about Shell investing in Fuel cell for combustion engines in the early 2000's before silently killing it off.

Yes I did used to run my tractor on veg oil.

HVO and HVO+ are fully plant based diesel alternatives that run on any diesel engine, in contrary to vegetable oil that works on old diesel engines but not on modern common rail diesel. it's not as good as vegetable oil but still around 40/60% less emissions than normal diesel. seems worth advocating for if you ask me, because getting everything electric is going to takes ages, and this is readily available

But as I've mentioned to you many times (and you've ignored it) in other threads 'ordinary diesel' now has to have a percentage of veg oil included within it , so recycled veg oil is no longer available.

nope, i responded by stating that from being able to fully run on vegetable oil to just and xx amount mixed trough is not an improvement. So i did not ignore you i just provided an answer you did not like. My point back then was that the common rail diesels where sold as an improvement as they exhaust gasses where cleaner based on normal diesel, compared to non-crd diesel engines. However crd-diesel also killed any ability to use vegetable oil as it's only source of fuel and an old diesel on pure vegetable oil is in turn cleaner than a crd diesel, and needs less maintenance. So normal people again paid for the paper advantage of crd, while it did'nt really has an advantage, and it is more expensive to maintain. So if you see the adaptation off all these announced measurements is very very slow, please know who to blame, the goverments, companies etc. not the people, not that it will change anything, we will probably get an chinese style social credit system, about your carbon footprint and stuff, and if it really was because normale poeple where so ignorant you could say ''yeah ok if it's needed it's needed'' but it's not it's just an other way to keep to rich richer.

Fwiw my diesel usage is very minimal.

I'd love to have an electric tractor , not available to me yet , maybe one day huh?

The Mercedes Evito has a range of 250 miles in optimal circumstances, The company that made the most promising prototype of an e-truck turned out to be a fraud. on the Fuel cell side however there are more then enough trucks running and refuelling those takes as long as filling up diesel, so unless fuel cell start becoming an thing here, i don't see it happening anytime soon.

None of which is relevant to the need and right to press and protest for greater action.

Some people on your home country have got the right idea.

Hopefully we will see more of this kind of thing over here.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-57257982

The need is an opinion, the right is not disputed, but there is an difference between protesting an blocking off roads, so that for example people die in an ambulance because it can't reach the hospital in time.

 

[Mugshot]

So how does creating more pollution by blocking cars making them run stationary help the cause of ''preventing (human made) climate change''

This often comes up, I do wonder why these people can't just turn their engines off.

 

[Rusty Nails]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-59540781

At least the government now recognises the need for more than just a tough prison regime as a means of preventing crime.
I know there will be justified comments about the previous problems caused by cuts, but this injection of serious money into treatment of drug offenders/addicts in an effort to reduce re-offending and resorting to crime to pay for drug habits must be a positive step forward.

 

[newfhouse]

this injection of serious money

Depends how it is spent. Whose turn is it, G4S, Serco or Crapita?

 

[Deleted member 28]

Depends how it is spent. Whose turn is it, G4S, Serco or Crapita?

How about HMP?

 

[newfhouse]

How about HMP?

The intention is for non-custodial rehab and treatment I think.

 

[BoldonLad]

The intention is for non-custodial rehab and treatment I think.

Yes, that is my impression too, but, since there is a significant drug problem among those already in custody, presumably, some effort (and cash) is going to be expended on them?

No matter where and how the money is spent, I still think success is unlikely, and, legalisation, regulation and taxation of (currently illegal) drugs is preferable.

 

[Deleted member 49]

Yes, that is my impression too, but, since there is a significant drug problem among those already in custody, presumably, some effort (and cash) is going to be expended on them?

No matter where and how the money is spent, I still think success is unlikely, and, legalisation, regulation and taxation of (currently illegal) drugs is preferable.

Cannabis might be illegal but there's very little prosecution on it.It seems to be let the law/police be soft on it but they won't legalize it and make some money by taxing it Others could be on to a winner ?
https://www.politico.eu/article/future-german-coalition-agrees-to-legalize-cannabis/

 

[Rusty Nails]

Depends how it is spent. Whose turn is it, G4S, Serco or Crapita?

Tbh I care less about who it is at this stage than whether it works, given who is in power.

It is a fact of life that the Tories are more concerned with private providers than public and nothing is going to change that while they are in power, but in the meantime I think it is a positive step to see money being given to improve the situation.

This is a step forward compared to where we are, and it is up to the opposition parties to use whatever pressure they can to get as much of the money as possible directed to local government and NHS facilities.

 

[newfhouse]

Tbh I care less about who it is at this stage than whether it works, given who is in power.

It is a fact of life that the Tories are more concerned with private providers than public and nothing is going to change that while they are in power, but in the meantime I think it is a positive step to see money being given to improve the situation.

This is a step forward compared to where we are, and it is up to the opposition parties to use whatever pressure they can to get as much of the money as possible directed to local government and NHS facilities.

I want it to work too, but I don’t believe that outcome is in the interests of the companies I mentioned. You only have to look at the disastrous outsourcing of probation to see what is likely to happen.

I hope I’m proved wrong.

 

[Hitchington]

The point of prison? To show the voting public that the governing party, at the time of elections, is "tough on crime" by locking up as many people as possible (see the reaction to the Insulate Britain protestors).

I'm much more in favour of restorative justice. Save prison for those who commit the most serious of crimes. There are way too many people in prison who probably shouldn't be there and would far better be rehabilitated in a community setting.

 

[icowden]

At least the government now recognises the need for more than just a tough prison regime as a means of preventing crime.
I know there will be justified comments about the previous problems caused by cuts, but this injection of serious money into treatment of drug offenders/addicts in an effort to reduce re-offending and resorting to crime to pay for drug habits must be a positive step forward.

I agree, but I do feel that the wording should be

this injection of serious money into treatment of drug offenders/addicts in an effort to return budgets to where they were 10 years ago and undo the damage done in the interim must be a positive step fprward.

 

[BoldonLad]

I agree, but I do feel that the wording should be

Is there any evidence to show that previous levels of expenditure were actually achieving the result of reducing, or even stabilizing levels of addiction?