Who Cares...??

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mudsticks

Squire
At the end of this article, a woman leaving the vigil for murdered schoolteacher Sabina Nessa says.

"I feel really angry, I always feel unsafe, I hate that women can't walk the streets I want women not to be blamed"

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...organised-across-uk-in-memory-of-sabina-nessa


Even being the assertive, and quite physically strong woman that I am , I do still feel nervous when I'm out and about by myself, in certain places, and if I encounter one or more men.

We can't tell by looking who is ok, and who isn't

Fwiw I just go and do stuff by myself anyway, and I've mainly been fine.

A few 'creeped out' moments , but on the whole I've been ok.

And I'm not letting a few barstewards spoil my solo adventuring fun.

Other women clearly don't feel so 'brave' and let's face it , why should they have to be 'brave' they're not murdering each other .

I regularly hear from women who are just building up their 'bravery' to go and do something by themselves.

We do have the right to go out and do things by ourselves yes??

Or not.?

Was being born a woman just 'bad luck' for us, so we should just 'suck up' this risk of abuse or murder.??

Yes I know, in fact, the risk from people known to us, is in fact statistically higher, another issue to tackle.

We've been suffering this for generations.

If we talk about it?

We're exaggerating, going on, or should just stay home, stay safe.

Which isn't it turns out always all that safe either .

Ok so cue the 'not all men'

Cue the 'men get attacked too, you know?'

However, this toxic masculinity which gives some men, some kind of entitlement to scare, harass, or do far worse to women, and alsother men, if it comes to it, needs to be tackled.

For everyone's sakes..men's too as it happens, it's not great for their MH either.

But it is down to men imo, educating and supporting their sons, and the same for each other.

Incel culture, violent pornography, and other horrible stuff, may either be a symptom, or an extra cause of all this, I don't know.

Im not a man, I can't understand why anyone could, or even why they would want to behave like this towards another human being,

Women shouldn't be scared to live their lives fully.

What can be, or is going to be, done about it??
 

FishFright

Well-Known Member
I used to think that the lot for the women of this country was improving, too slowly but at least heading in the correct direction. But in the last decade the opposite has been happening .

The internet has let some men's baser side come to the forr which has had the effect of renormalizing attitudes that were on the wane.

Also the 'feminism has gone too far' crowd need a reminder of the reality of the modern world.
 
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mudsticks

mudsticks

Squire
I used to think that the lot for the women of this country was improving, too slowly but at least heading in the correct direction. But in the last decade the opposite has been happening .

The internet has let some men's baser side come to the forr which has had the effect of renormalizing attitudes that were on the wane.

Also the 'feminism has gone too far' crowd need a reminder of the reality of the modern world.

Yes the internet 'normalising' awful attitudes certainly resonates.

So that needs tackling somehow.

It needs counterbalancing, or challenging in some way.

And 'feminism' going too far.

Ha, if only .

But the phrase

"As true equality comes closer, those used to having the privilege start to feel oppressed "

Springs to mind.


Same with racism, and all the rest of it..

Do people realise that feminism is about gender equality,?

Not about women dominating, and doing to men, what men have done to women?

I'm not sure some even do get that :sad:

The lot for some women is / has definitely improved for some women, undoubtedly.

If I'd been born fifty years earlier , I wouldn't have been able, or even allowed to do many of the things I've done, merely because of my gender.

But that uplift is not across the board.

I had certain privileges of background, and upbringing which made it easier for me, to do what I've done.

I try to.pass that 'uplift' on.
But there's only so much I can do..
 

The Crofted Crest

Active Member
Im not a man, I can't understand why anyone could, or even why they would want to behave like this towards another human being

A guy over here in Clogland recently got sentenced to 120 days in jail for hitting female cyclists, aged from 5 to 55. When he explained why he did it (he "enjoyed hitting women"), the judged imposed compulsory psychiatric treatment.

He was English.

:sad:
 
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mudsticks

mudsticks

Squire
A guy over here in Clogland recently got sentenced to 120 days in jail for hitting female cyclists, aged from 5 to 55. When he explained why he did it (he "enjoyed hitting women"), the judged imposed compulsory psychiatric treatment.

He was English.

:sad:

Sick attitude of 'enjoying' hurting innocent women.

Where does that come from, I wonder?

I also wonder if the psychiatric treatment did any good.?
 

Milkfloat

Active Member
I am 6’4” and in my early 20s used to be a door supervisor (bouncer). If I am sometimes concerned when out and about and a careful on my route home from town I can only imagine what women on their own feel. My daughter is not yet old enough to be out alone in the evening, but it is coming and I am genuinely concerned, it is bad enough when she she get the bus home on her own after a school club. Attitudes need to change fast, but then again they have needed to change for decades.
 
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mudsticks

mudsticks

Squire
I am 6’4” and in my early 20s used to be a door supervisor (bouncer). If I am sometimes concerned when out and about and a careful on my route home from town I can only imagine what women on their own feel. My daughter is not yet old enough to be out alone in the evening, but it is coming and I am genuinely concerned, it is bad enough when she she get the bus home on her own after a school club. Attitudes need to change fast, but then again they have needed to change for decades.

It's going to be a tricky one, for you as a parent
.

Navigating that line between quite naturally wanting her to be safe.

But also not wanting the fairly low chance of someone attacking her, to hold her back in any way shape or form, from leading a full life free from fear.

I'd emphasise the total self respect, and right to freedom thing, if I were you.

Society will give her enough of the 'negative' downside info, without her even asking.

As a parent of boys it was my job to instil in them utmost respect for people, but for women in particular.

I was a little bit chuffed the other day , when I was in my sons bar.

A young woman friend of his came up and said

"Please let me buy you a drink , you know, your son is one of the best guys I know"

Of course he's had lots of other positive role models, to thank for that, but it was still a bit of a proud momma moment..
 
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mudsticks

mudsticks

Squire
I used to think that the lot for the women of this country was improving, too slowly but at least heading in the correct direction. But in the last decade the opposite has been happening .

The internet has let some men's baser side come to the forr which has had the effect of renormalizing attitudes that were on the wane.

Also the 'feminism has gone too far' crowd need a reminder of the reality of the modern world.

@FishFright

This report bears out what you were saying about the internet encouraging some awful attitudes that we'd hoped were on the wane.

It's doesn't make for pleasant reading.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...ng-sexual-violence-against-women-report-finds

I don't know, quite how it would be done but it seems to me that it's not enough for the decent men to just to try to avoid all contact with the awful ones.

And hope that they'll just magically shut up and go away.


It feels like countering it all is going to take a bit more pro-activism, probably from other men.

They're more likely to understand what could work, get listened to even.??


I don't happen to believe at all that

"No one cares"

I think a lot of people really do care very much.

And a lot of men care very much, they don't want to be tarred with the same brush, or associated with the same toxic behaviours.

They don't want women's lives to be blighted by this horrible stuff.

But maybe they're often at a loss what to do.??

I think it's going to take a collaborative, intentional effort to fight back against these attitudes, and to reject them from the 'culture'.

Online, and offline .
 

Rusty Nails

Country Member
feels like countering it all is going to take a bit more pro-activism, probably from other men.

They're more likely to understand what could work, get listened to even.??

Your post ends with the words "online, and offline" and sadly those are two different sides of the same problem.

Online abuse of women is very difficult to fight by other men who are disgusted by it because of its very nature of being anonymous, often existing on extremist sites where their views are tolerated and even encouraged. How does one fight violence skulking behind anonymity? Often attacking them online only results in ratcheting up the abuse and an increased use of paper tissues alongside their computers.

Offline is a different matter and should be confronted rather than ignored with distaste.

Online requires much tougher legislation and the strength to fight it from platform providers even if it losesthem some income.
 
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mudsticks

mudsticks

Squire
Your post ends with the words "online, and offline" and sadly those are two different sides of the same problem.

Online abuse of women is very difficult to fight by other men who are disgusted by it because of its very nature of being anonymous, often existing on extremist sites where their views are tolerated and even encouraged. How does one fight violence skulking behind anonymity? Often attacking them online only results in ratcheting up the abuse and an increased use of paper tissues alongside their computers.

Offline is a different matter and should be confronted rather than ignored with distaste.

Online requires much tougher legislation and the strength to fight it from platform providers even if it losesthem some income.

Yes a bit more offline confronting, or pulling up , whatever you call it rather than just ignoring it could help.

But there's definitely an overlap between online and offline too.

The one bleeds into each other.

I'm not saying I'm against new legislation as such.

But I think it has to be done well, and be part of a whole shift also in attitudes, expectations, what's accepted as 'normal' and not really any harm.

There's this whole aggrieved incel culture for example.

In many ways making laws about it, adds to the false sense of victim-hood , gives a sense of being 'outlaws' or somesuch..

To be effective it has to be done well, not just token gestures, and laws that are never enforced
 

Pale Rider

Veteran
Someone arrested and charged over Ms Nessa's murder, although it's not clear if this was a stranger attack or not.

Speaking of which, the copper who murdered (and raped and kidnapped) Sarah Everard is due to be sentenced today.

Enormous public pressure on the judge to give him a whopping tariff.

I'm expecting about 35 years, which would suitably clip the wings of a 48-year-old.
 

Beebo

Veteran
Speaking of which, the copper who murdered (and raped and kidnapped) Sarah Everard is due to be sentenced today.

Enormous public pressure on the judge to give him a whopping tariff.

I'm expecting about 35 years, which would suitably clip the wings of a 48-year-old.
Judges are quite good at avoiding public pressure but he has already indicated that a full life tariff is under consideration.
 
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mudsticks

mudsticks

Squire
Judges are quite good at avoiding public pressure but he has already indicated that a full life tariff is under consideration.

Strong sentences for high profile cases like these are inevitable.

And of course completely proper for someone who has taken away the life of another human being, in what is possibly the most brutal and terrifying manner imaginable .

And who showed signs of his tendencies long before he committed this murder.

Signs that were, as is so often the case ignored.

It's just another manifestation of the 'missing stair' phenomenon, that someone on hear introduced me to..

Who says NACA isn't educational.??

I expect the safest possible place for the man who murdered Sarah Everard is behind bars, probably in solitary confinement, in a maximum security prison.

Anywhere else I imagine he'd be dead meat within days.

Same goes for other perpetrators of these violent crimes.

Of course prosecution after the fact , is part of the overall strategy necessary for tackling endemic violence against women and girls.

But even that isn't being done properly, as report after report has shown.

Many of the most vulnerable women often don't trust the police, or courts anyway.
Often with very good reason.

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...men-police-powers-sabina-nessa--sarah-everard

A lot more preventative action has to be taken education , socialisation, speaking up in situations where it's difficult..

So that my (nowadays) fairly blithe attitude to going where I like, when I like, minding my.own business, and quite happy in my own glorious, 'me time' solitude, with minimal fear of attack, becomes the norm, for women, not still the exception.
 

Pale Rider

Veteran
Judges are quite good at avoiding public pressure but he has already indicated that a full life tariff is under consideration.

That surprised me a little because full life tariffs are generally reserved for those who murder more than one person.

Predictably, it's being heard by a judicial big hitter, Lord Justice Fulford, so if he says it's full life, it's full life.
 

Beebo

Veteran
The circumstances of the murder make terrible reading.
To act in such a calculated manner is very disturbing and demonstrates premeditation and abuse of trust on a scale which must push him to the top of any tariff.
 
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