Who Cares...??

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Pale Rider

Veteran
The circumstances of the murder make terrible reading.
To act in such a calculated manner is very disturbing and demonstrates premeditation and abuse of trust on a scale which must push him to the top of any tariff.

It's a two day hearing, so the court is doing its best to give Ms Everard a good send off.

I've seen 'routine' murderers potted in an hour or less.

A judge at Sheffield Crown Court slotted a murder sentencing in between two witnesses in an unrelated trial he was hearing.

The result of that was several of the other hacks missed it while they were supping tea in the canteen downstairs.

I had an inkling of what was going to happen so was sitting, somewhat smugly, on an otherwise deserted Press bench as the judge gave the defendant the inevitable life sentence.

Being the type of guy I am, I did give the others a few lines afterwards to save them from embarrassment/the sack.
 
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mudsticks

mudsticks

Squire
The circumstances of the murder make terrible reading.
To act in such a calculated manner is very disturbing and demonstrates premeditation and abuse of trust on a scale which must push him to the top of any tariff.

About the worst possible abuse of power and authority.

Also shocking - the fact that others already knew he had a reputation.

And yet he was allowed to carry on in that position.

It has some parallels with the Saville case, and so many others, where the warning signs were there.
It was an 'open secret'

"Why didn't anyone say, at the time ??"

Ahem, lots of people did..

But who were they ??

Not significant, or reliable witnesses.

Nobody liked to make a fuss.


A blind eye was turned, and the abuses were allowed to continue.
 
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Deleted member 49

Guest
I heard this on the radio at work and it really does make your blood run cold !
PC Wayne Couzens was seen handcuffing Sarah Everard on a road in Clapham - she was compliant because he used the guise of covid restrictions to “arrest” her. It was seen by witnesses who assumed Everard had done something wrong. They were in fact witnessing her kidnap by a cop.
 
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mudsticks

mudsticks

Squire
I heard this on the radio at work and it really does make your blood run cold !
PC Wayne Couzens was seen handcuffing Sarah Everard on a road in Clapham - she was compliant because he used the guise of covid restrictions to “arrest” her. It was seen by witnesses who assumed Everard had done something wrong. They were in fact witnessing her kidnap by a cop.

Chilling, but who among us would have questioned it.?

We are discussing some pretty extreme cases here, which are of course relevant.

But in some ways focussing on them could be used to distract from the more regular, and far less often reported cases of abuse and violence done to women.

And the fear and limits that encroach on their lives as a result.

If we only concentrate only on these 'extreme' cases we might be led to assume these crimes of abuse and violence are almost vanishingly rare.

That is very far from the case.

Something in the minds of some men, drives them to behave in a violent or abusive way.

Entitles, or permits, or excuses them, in their own twisted view.

Many women live with a low, or even high level of fear, of this.

It's not right that their lives should be limited like this.

Prosecution is something that needs to be done better, for sure, it may be a deterrent in some cases.

But prevention is by far preferable yes??
 
D

Deleted member 49

Guest
Chilling, but who among us would have questioned it.?

We are discussing some pretty extreme cases here, which are of course relevant.

But in some ways focussing on them could be used to distract from the more regular, and far less often reported cases of abuse and violence done to women.

And the fear and limits that encroach on their lives as a result.

If we only concentrate only on these 'extreme' cases we might be led to assume these crimes of abuse and violence are almost vanishingly rare.

That is very far from the case.

Something in the minds of some men, drives them to behave in a violent or abusive way.

Entitles, or permits, or excuses them, in their own twisted view.

Many women live with a low, or even high level of fear, of this.

It's not right that their lives should be limited like this.

Prosecution is something that needs to be done better, for sure, it may be a deterrent in some cases.

But prevention is by far preferable yes??
I'm not sure I know the answers....but I've a partner and a young daughter who sadly know the dangers well enough.
My partner thinks the media/social media have a huge role to play,the way woman are portrayed,violence,porn....I could go on but I'm sure you get the gist.
Utterly fecking depressing though !
 
D

Deleted member 49

Guest
Most unlikely I would have given it a second glance, especially if Couzens was in uniform.

If he wasn't, that taken in conjunction with his plain rental car, might have made the situation look a little strange.

But one wave of his warrant card would have successfully batted away any challenge.
But he should never of been near a warrant card or uniform, two allegations of indecent exposure and being nicknamed the rapist by colleagues should of set alarm bells off long ago !
 
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mudsticks

mudsticks

Squire
I'm not sure I know the answers....but I've a partner and a young daughter who sadly know the dangers well enough.
My partner thinks the media/social media have a huge role to play,the way woman are portrayed,violence,porn....I could go on but I'm sure you get the gist.
Utterly fecking depressing though !

Yup, sadly.

But more people acknowledging the problem, giving a shoot, and acting on it could help a bit though.
 

Beebo

Veteran
he’s been given a Whole Life tariff.
Good.
 

Banderill

New Member
What can the government do to help women feel safer? Isn't this more of a societal problem? There are already laws intended to protect women (or at least prosecute people who break them), but short of having a personal bodyguard with you everywhere you go, how do we make homes, workplaces and public spaces safer for women?

I have never had any predator feelings towards women, so cannot understand the headspace of men who do, but how do we identify such men and keep them away from women?

I also cannot begin to comprehend what it feels like to be constantly wary (and weary) of unwanted attention. On your guard and living in fear when out doing the most ordinary of things, that us men simply take for granted.

And it is not just women. It's a very sad fact that girls, by the age of 12-14, have often already had enough unwanted attention that they have become "experienced" at dealing with it. Crazy.

Do any women on the forum have any experience of living outside the UK? Did you feel less or more safe, in general?
 

PK99

Regular
Do any women on the forum have any experience of living outside the UK? Did you feel less or more safe, in general?

I'm in Vancouver at the moment, seeing D1/4 years here and D2/2 years here.

Both say that Vancouver is a much more pleasant place to be a young woman.

No wolf whistles from building sites and WVM ETC.

Far less need to be on guard walking home at night.

Generally just a better place to be than London.

But, I would say the same too about how I feel safety wise here. Less aggressive and in yer face. Night time busses and walks to Airbnb are very relaxed. Much more so than close to home in leafy SW19. We are in Kits but saw D2 in East Van yesterday evening and the same applied

Less street drunkeness. Apart from Downtown East Side near Gastown/Chinatown where there is a drug and homelessness problem.
 
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Beebo

Veteran
I'm in Vancouver at the moment, seeing D1/4 years here and D2/2 years here.

Both say that Vancouver is a much more pleasant place to be a young woman.

No wolf whistles from building sites and WVM ETC.

Far less need to be on guard walking home at night.

Generally just a better place to be than London.

But, I would say the same too about how I feel safety wise here. Less aggressive and in yer face. Night time busses and walks to Airbnb are very relaxed. Much more so than close to home in leafy SW19. We are in Kits but saw D2 in East Van yesterday evening and the same applied

Less street drunkeness. Apart from Downtown East Side near Gastown/Chinatown where there is a drug and homelessness problem.
I think you’re currently experiencing the global pinnacle of city living.
Vancouver always comes very near the top of any survey into living standards.
Plus it has a population of less than a million.
So not really a fair comparison.
 
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mudsticks

mudsticks

Squire
But he should never of been near a warrant card or uniform, two allegations of indecent exposure and being nicknamed the rapist by colleagues should of set alarm bells off long ago !

Yup, we've all heard it, all our lives..

I've heard it far too often enough myself.

"Oh he doesn't mean it, it's just
locker room talk"

''Just guys , being guys"

All that overlooked bahoolix, from the toxic manosphere..

If no one challenges it , then it becomes normalised, right.?

These ideas seep into our 'culture'.

Sooner or later, on a depressingly regular basis, there's one of these .

"Out of the blue, who would have predicted it"

cases.

Then afterwards...

Suddenly everyone saw the warning signs -

"Always thought he was 'a bit of a wrong un..'

Eighty women have lost their lives to male violence, since Sarah was murdered .

Yes Eighty..

At least - those are the ones we know about.

https://metro.co.uk/2021/09/29/the-...verard-was-murdered-by-wayne-couzens-15327405/

And many others, hurt, abused or scared.

But if someone once in good faith posts pictures of these women, to remind us of this 'everyday' fear that's being ignored.
She'll get told she's 'virtue signalling' for posting their pictures.

Society cant fix a problem if society won't acknowledge it's a problem.

If ridiculous women like me do challenge it??

We're exaggerating, being horrible about 'all men' .
Whereas what we're doing is just wanting some recognition of the problem, wanting the dominant, and dominating half of society to do something..

But I think maybe we've been too subtle.


The fact that many women have adapted themselves, learnt to ignore, or discount this kind of thing, even laugh, because they don't want to prick, any fragile pricks' ego.

Not made a fuss, because that can actually be dangerous.

In order just to have a life, without hassle, we shut up 'be nice' pretend it's all ok, really right.??

We're 'alright' really, yes??

Push down our own discomfort because if we object to this talk, and these attitudes , we're all 'man hating feminazis' right.??

There was a serving officer in the Met on the radio today, saying that you generally don't complain about that kind of talk , or attitude, because if you do.??

Then, well, its highly likely 'the guys' will close ranks.

So you're never 100% sure.

Will they come quickly enough next time, if I call for assistance .??

Or will the response be a bit slow??

I probs used to ignore it myself, no I know I did.

Just say nothing, because you see, if you do you get branded a humourless 'sourpuss' right, ha !

Even that slur is gendered, and then oh no !!

You might not be so 'popular'- the boys might not like you..Imagine ??

"No sense of of humour.."

You'll also hear women being massively disloyal too and dismissing other women for being 'over sensitive' or being scared.

Unbelievable, when they don't know what other women have had to suffer.

Many women have very real reason to be scared, but they keep quiet about their experiences, don't want to retraumatise themselves, or expose their vulnerability.



Nowadays of course, I don't give a flying f*ck, about all that, I will call it out .

So many of us are thoroughly sick, and sickened by it .

And so many women are still scared.

Many men too.

But wow, do we get push back for speaking up.??

Ironically even - yes 'ironically' we get threats of violence, if we do that .

Is that really all they've got??

Probably.


Why on earth would anyone want to be 'one of the lads' if being 'included' required you to go along with that sort of attitude .??



Nah, I'll stick with hanging out with the decent ones, of whom thankfully there are still many.

But still be wary when going further afield.

I'll still go further afield by myself , because I want to, and because I have every right.

but I'm so tired of carrying that extra burden of fear, a burden which no woman ever asked to carry.

Btw if you see that PR person please tell him he can stick his 'good send off'

For Sarah Everard.

Precisely where it hurts

I don't actually believe anyone who claims to use words for a living, doesn't know exactly what they're doing, if they use words as inappropriate as that.

If they don't .??

Well
then, that's equally troubling too, really.

I pity any poor woman, already traumatised by her experiences, being interviewed by someone with such a very obvious empathy gap...

'A good send off' is for when your nan dies, she died peacefully, at a good age, surrounded and loved by family .

Not in the most hideous manner possible, as Sarah and in the way so many other, less well publicised victims have.


In the meantime, we can read some other peoples' much more important words . And be prepared to weep.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...future-sarah-everard-family-impact-statements
 
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mudsticks

mudsticks

Squire
What can the government do to help women feel safer? Isn't this more of a societal problem? There are already laws intended to protect women (or at least prosecute people who break them), but short of having a personal bodyguard with you everywhere you go, how do we make homes, workplaces and public spaces safer for women?

I have never had any predator feelings towards women, so cannot understand the headspace of men who do, but how do we identify such men and keep them away from women?

I also cannot begin to comprehend what it feels like to be constantly wary (and weary) of unwanted attention. On your guard and living in fear when out doing the most ordinary of things, that us men simply take for granted.

And it is not just women. It's a very sad fact that girls, by the age of 12-14, have often already had enough unwanted attention that they have become "experienced" at dealing with it. Crazy.

Do any women on the forum have any experience of living outside the UK? Did you feel less or more safe, in general?

100% agree this is a society problem.
Government and law can provide the framework, but society has to be onboard, to make it work.

Tbh there's a slight shortage of openly female women on the forum.

(Particularly on this one:whistle:)

No one knows why..

Here's a list of countries ranked by their women friendliness.

Unsurprisingly Scandinavia tops out.
But they're big on actively promoting equality.


Im a fairly tall 5'10" and strong (farmer) woman, brought up to believe I was entitled to equal rights and freedoms.

So I generally feel fairly confident in the world, doing my thing, do lots of solo touring hiking, and so on
.

I still have fears around unknown men, though, but I push them down , in order that I get to live the same life that is available to men, in terms of freedom of movement, speech, and all the rest of it .

Overriding those fears, uncertainties, and lack of 'baked in' entitlement, that some males seem to be given as their birthright, is an extra bit of work I could really do without having to do.
 
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