Arthur Labinjo-Hughes: A life cut short by cruelty

[Deleted member 28]

Are you sure?

Something that nobody has said.

It is possible for the abuser and murderer to be entirely responsible for the crime but still believe that opportunities were missed that could have prevented it. It is then worth looking at reasons for those failures - resources, policies, competence and so on.

As already said, I wonder if people would still 'believe ' those opportunities were missed if it wasn't a Tory Government?

You can split hairs all day long for me.

I genuinely hope Labour do win next time because the UK will be so much better than it is now, apparently, can't wait.

 

[newfhouse]

I wonder if people would still 'believe ' those opportunities were missed if it wasn't a Tory Government?

I can’t speak for anyone else, but yes. Nothing changes overnight but a decade of deliberate and politically motivated austerity has diminished the ability of local services in many ways that have a negative impact.

You can split hairs all day long for me.

Fundamental, not hair splitting.

I genuinely hope Labour do win next time

Vote for it and it might happen.

 

[Cirrus]

Different things arouse different emotional responses in different people. Which is partly why I think we should separate criminal sentencing from emotion as far as possible.

Indeed, however the judiciary are representative of society and laws should evolve to represent the views and wishes of the people they serve, hence why sentencing should be periodically reviewed to ensure they are still appropriate for gravity of crimes committed.

I'm suggesting that for the most serious crimes e.g., torture combined with abuse and murder of the most vulnerable in society by those that are in a position of total authority and trust, that the sentencing guides and tariffs should be reviewed. If when reviewed they are stiffened, great, if they remain the same or are reduced then so be it.

 

[BoldonLad]

Simple answer - yes.

How should you know? Well, you could start by gathering information before forming opinions.

Links, to show that, say, child deaths reduced during last Labour tenure, or, indeed at any period since, say, WW2.

 

[BoldonLad]

Yes it did.

Not massively but a lot better than now.

Links to show that child deaths reduced during last period of Labour tenure, or, indeed at any period since WW2, would be interesting

 

[matticus]

Indeed, however the judiciary are representative of society and laws should evolve to represent the views and wishes of the people they serve, hence why sentencing should be periodically reviewed to ensure they are still appropriate for gravity of crimes committed.

are you saying that if "the people" want sentences increased for a certain crime, then they should be increased? It's that simple?

 

[newfhouse]

Links, to show that, say, child deaths reduced during last Labour tenure, or, indeed at any period since, say, WW2.

Is it only child deaths that count or will other indicators work for you?

 

[Rusty Nails]

Links to show that child deaths reduced during last period of Labour tenure, or, indeed at any period since WW2, would be interesting

You will probably not get anything definitive as statistics about child abuse and killings over the longer term are very difficult to come by (I only managed to find this very broad brush report from the NSPCC from 2016, perhaps others have had better luck: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanpub/article/PIIS2468-2667(19)30002-7/fulltext ). It has got better reported in recent years but not enough to pinpoint links between different governments.

Luckily, actual child deaths from violence and abuse are still relatively small and decreased all last century through to 2016, with a couple of blips, and are so small that it is virtually impossible to causally link child deaths and specific governments.

The whole topic is so complex that I don't think simplistic and partisan arguments about "well they were as bad/worse/better" gets anywhere and the important thing should be about whether different governments have implemented policies and allocated resources that make the situation wrt to child abuse, of which actual deaths are thankfully a very small number, worse or better. Cut child abuse and you will cut child deaths.

 

[Deleted member 28]

Is it only child deaths that count or will other indicators work for you?

It was Child abuse that the initial claim was referring to.....

"The government have got Bradford social services in their sights."

For a start this fukcing piss shitt bastard government should be held to account for stripping billions of £££ out of the very services that are there to protect children and other vulnerable people.

 

[Cirrus]

are you saying that if "the people" want sentences increased for a certain crime, then they should be increased? It's that simple?

No, I'm saying that if society (the people) believe that sentences are not appropriate then they should be reviewed. The judiciary are a function of society (or should be in a democracy) and are accountable to it.

 

[Cirrus]

The sentences for Star's murderer and her mother are to be reviewed..
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-59683996

 

[Bromptonaut]

The sentences for Star's murderer and her mother are to be reviewed..
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-59683996

The AG has been asked to consider if they're too lenient. Only if she agrees and so do the Court of Appeal will the sentences actually change.

If I were a betting man I'd lay odds they're not so far wrong as to be overturned by the Court. Whether the sad excuse for a lawyer who currently occupies the AG's seat refers them for political ends is another question.

 

[Cirrus]

The AG has been asked to consider if they're too lenient. Only if she agrees and so do the Court of Appeal will the sentences actually change.

As I said, it's going to be reviewed.

 

[BoldonLad]

You will probably not get anything definitive as statistics about child abuse and killings over the longer term are very difficult to come by (I only managed to find this very broad brush report from the NSPCC from 2016, perhaps others have had better luck: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanpub/article/PIIS2468-2667(19)30002-7/fulltext ). It has got better reported in recent years but not enough to pinpoint links between different governments.

Luckily, actual child deaths from violence and abuse are still relatively small and decreased all last century through to 2016, with a couple of blips, and are so small that it is virtually impossible to causally link child deaths and specific governments.

The whole topic is so complex that I don't think simplistic and partisan arguments about "well they were as bad/worse/better" gets anywhere and the important thing should be about whether different governments have implemented policies and allocated resources that make the situation wrt to child abuse, of which actual deaths are thankfully a very small number, worse or better. Cut child abuse and you will cut child deaths.

Quite.

 

[BoldonLad]

Is it only child deaths that count or will other indicators work for you?

Child deaths due to abuse will do for now.