Big brother Tesla
- Thread starter albion
- Start date
Page may contain affiliate links. Please see terms for details.
icowden
Legendary Member
It is, but there is a caveat. Musk has made all the patents available for free but many companies won't use them because of the rules:-
The final paragraph points out that you can also license Tesla technology - at a cost.
OP
OP
albion
Guru
https://spectrum.ieee.org/amp/tesla-full-self-driving-critic-2661721565
Good news is they survived the 'shotgun' demo drive.
Good news is they survived the 'shotgun' demo drive.
MrGrumpy
Regular
The Mercedes has it , hate the bloody thing . Need to see if it can be switched off .
OP
OP
albion
Guru
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-66313916
My counter conspiracist mind says 'lets bring back all of the diseases we have near eradicated'.
My counter conspiracist mind says 'lets bring back all of the diseases we have near eradicated'.
OP
OP
albion
Guru
https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy...o-much-that-drivers-thought-cars-were-broken/
Whilst I was sceptical, Tesla, thought being much the same as everyone in range declaration, on reading, there is a case.
Marketing was way ahead of fact for FSD so here those 'true range reporting only below 50% battery' rumours might also be fact.
And here it says ' In contrast to Tesla cars, Edmunds reported that "most non-Tesla vehicles have surpassed their EPA estimates.'
So the EPA on Tesla might in fact be bigger bullshit than the rest.
Whilst I was sceptical, Tesla, thought being much the same as everyone in range declaration, on reading, there is a case.
Marketing was way ahead of fact for FSD so here those 'true range reporting only below 50% battery' rumours might also be fact.
And here it says ' In contrast to Tesla cars, Edmunds reported that "most non-Tesla vehicles have surpassed their EPA estimates.'
So the EPA on Tesla might in fact be bigger bullshit than the rest.
Last edited:
icowden
Legendary Member
It's just guesswork.
My Renault Grand Scenic used to guess how far you could go on a full tank. It was always wrong.
The important thing is the amount of charge left just as in an ICE car it's how much fuel is left in the tank.
You cannot predict how far a car will go on a set amount of energy. There are too many variables. Wind speed, traffic speed, starting and stopping, how much you have in the boot, whether you have passengers etc,
No shoot sherlock.
The simple fact is that if you have just done 200 miles at 60mph your next range calculation will be wildly optimistic unless you are also doing 200 miles at 60mph.
OP
OP
albion
Guru
it was inferred that Tesla overstate the range far more than competitors do.
It was inferred that Tesla only switch to a realistic reading when the battery gets below 50%.
And a problem for Musk is that few believe anything he says, likely clouding the issue further.
'
The directive to present the optimistic range estimates came from Tesla Chief Executive Elon Musk, this person said.
"Elon wanted to show good range numbers when fully charged," the person said, adding: "When you buy a car off the lot seeing 350-mile, 400-mile range, it makes you feel good."
"In April, Car and Driver reported that its testing showed Tesla "pursues an impressive figure for its window stickers, and ends up returning real-world results that are on average two times as far off the label value as most EVs." BMW, Mercedes, Audi, and Porsche "typically provide a relatively conservative range figure, allowing us to meet or even at times exceed the range numbers in Car and Driver's real-world tests." As a result, "400 miles of stated range for a Tesla and 300 miles for a Porsche is pretty much the same number at real highway speeds."
'Car and Driver data was used in a recent study by SAE International. One of the study co-authors reportedly "told Reuters that three Tesla models posted the worst performance, falling short of their advertised ranges by an average of 26 percent." '
In January, South Korea's antitrust regulator fined Tesla $2.2 million, saying the company exaggerated the "driving ranges "
If real live power draw figures are available then the comparison task should be extremely easy to do.
It was inferred that Tesla only switch to a realistic reading when the battery gets below 50%.
And a problem for Musk is that few believe anything he says, likely clouding the issue further.
'
The directive to present the optimistic range estimates came from Tesla Chief Executive Elon Musk, this person said.
"Elon wanted to show good range numbers when fully charged," the person said, adding: "When you buy a car off the lot seeing 350-mile, 400-mile range, it makes you feel good."
"In April, Car and Driver reported that its testing showed Tesla "pursues an impressive figure for its window stickers, and ends up returning real-world results that are on average two times as far off the label value as most EVs." BMW, Mercedes, Audi, and Porsche "typically provide a relatively conservative range figure, allowing us to meet or even at times exceed the range numbers in Car and Driver's real-world tests." As a result, "400 miles of stated range for a Tesla and 300 miles for a Porsche is pretty much the same number at real highway speeds."
'Car and Driver data was used in a recent study by SAE International. One of the study co-authors reportedly "told Reuters that three Tesla models posted the worst performance, falling short of their advertised ranges by an average of 26 percent." '
In January, South Korea's antitrust regulator fined Tesla $2.2 million, saying the company exaggerated the "driving ranges "
If real live power draw figures are available then the comparison task should be extremely easy to do.
Last edited:
icowden
Legendary Member
I get that. I just don't understand why it matters.
Lets look at the Tesla S Dual Motor. Tesla advertise this as having a range of 355 miles.
EV Database says:-
Real Range between 260 - 505 mi
| City - Cold Weather | 335 mi |
| Highway - Cold Weather | 260 mi |
| Combined - Cold Weather | 300 mi |
| City - Mild Weather | 505 mi |
| Highway - Mild Weather | 340 mi |
| Combined - Mild Weather | 415 mi |
So in the real world the range can vary by 245 miles depending on the type of driving and the weather. That's a *lot* of variance.
So is it fair to say that the Tesla S Dual Motor has a range of 355 miles? Well the average of all those figures which have been obtained by real world driving is 359.1 miles. So 355 seems reasonable.
Rusty Nails
Country Member
You don't diss Tesla when icowden is about.
icowden
Legendary Member
To be fair - you can diss Tesla - you just need to back up the diss :-)
The reason the EV database started in the first place is that we know manufacturers are lying about the range that their cars can do. It's the best place to get a real world idea of the range of a vehicle.
VW claim 328 miles as the range for the ID4 Pro. The EV database says 255 miles. In my experience the EV database is pretty spot on. Interestingly the only category that gets close to the mileage claimed by VW is City driving in mild weather. Everything else is lower.
Tesla claim the Y long range has a range of 331 miles. EV Database says 270 miles etc etc
Last edited:
OP
OP
albion
Guru
Not exactly dieselgate, but I just don't understand why you think Tesla is allowed to massage the most.
icowden
Legendary Member
I just don't think it matters. We don't bother looking at whether the range predictors in ICE cars are accurate, we look at the MPG.
For an EV we should be looking at MPKwH and total capacity of battery.
Range predictors are just nonsense.
If you want to talk range, then the best way forward would be for manufacturers to be forced to provide a real-world range rather than WLTP which is a fictional range set in a test facility.
The problem is that from the get go the number one myth / issue that journalists like to jump on is "how far can it go?" "These EVs can't go very far can they? WHat if they can't go far enough? Why can't they go 600 miles like my diesel can?".
The simple answer is that the average car journey distance in the UK is 8.4 miles. You *might* a few times per year drive further than 150 miles in a single trip. But these are the exception not the rule. Range really doesn't matter. You either want a runabout with short range, or you want a family car with about 250 miles range (which is most EVs).
Last edited:
Rusty Nails
Country Member
Come on, you know you're just EV-angelising to angle for a discount on your next car from Elon.