Big brother Tesla

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stowie

Active Member
I think that one is a bit misleading. Every software update for a minor problem is classed as a "recall" by the US Government. No recall of the vehicles is actually needed.

You are right - most are fixed by OTA updates, there have been some in 2022 that required a physical recall instead. Tesla are trying to get software fixes to not be classed as recalls, and I understand why. But on the other hand, they are fixes to issues - including safety issues - that have been identified.

They really aren't. I love my VW ID4 but it's thick as pigswill compared to a Tesla.

Mercedes have just gained certification in Germany for level 3 self-driving on the new S-class. This is the first such license to be issued in Europe for a production car. BMW have announced they will have level 3 by 2024.

Waymo and Cruise are more advanced now with autonomous driving than Tesla. Cruise have autonomous taxis operating in San Francisco.* I appreciate these are cars you cannot purchase, but I think if autonomous driving is ever "a thing" then car use models will change anyway.

Tesla has a comprehensive array of level 2 autonomy, but these are closer to advanced driver aids rather than full autonomy.

Musk did announce - and implement - that all Teslas were only to have cameras (vision systems) rather the array of cameras, radar, and lidar that other companies have opted for. Although, some people have spotted recent patent applications from Tesla which look awfully like they may be moving away from that decision back to some kind of radar.

I think that autonomous driving has stalled (pun sort of intended) to some degree as the sheer complexity of building a car that responds to all reasonable road conditions increases. Tesla have had a differentiation with the technology in their cars previously, but this is becoming narrower, if not surpassed by other companies.

I understand your point over other current more cost sensitive cars though. Tesla driver aids are significantly ahead of many rivals, but for autonomous driving, I think it is very much up for debate whether this is achievable and Musk made it a pretty big part of the Tesla marketing pitch.


*Cruise have had "mixed" results. If you want a chuckle look at the story around the robo-taxis seemingly getting together and blocking a SF junction. I like to think the AI self learned about climate change and they have joined Just Stop Oil :laugh:
 
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icowden

Legendary Member
Mercedes have just gained certification in Germany for level 3 self-driving on the new S-class. This is the first such license to be issued in Europe for a production car. BMW have announced they will have level 3 by 2024.
Waymo and Cruise are more advanced now with autonomous driving than Tesla. Cruise have autonomous taxis operating in San Francisco.* I appreciate these are cars you cannot purchase, but I think if autonomous driving is ever "a thing" then car use models will change anyway.
Tesla has a comprehensive array of level 2 autonomy, but these are closer to advanced driver aids rather than full autonomy.
I did find an interesting article which discusses "what things are classed as" vs " what things can do". So for example Tesla's autosteer is very advanced and could be considered level 4. Teslas have driven across America without human input. However in Europe the roads are more complicated.

Musk could be classing the same tech as Level 2 in Europe so that the tech is released out of Beta and has approval so that Tesla can start accumulating data, improve the system and later ask for uprating.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesm...ving-only-level-2-autonomous/?sh=7edaad826a32

This is also interesting:

https://electrek.co/2022/07/14/elon...ions-tesla-next-big-full-self-driving-update/

In comparison my ID4 can't even decide that if I say "Navigate to Tesco Weybridge" (3 miles away) that this is not in fact "Tesco Wadebridge" which is 231 miles away. Basic decision making is beyond VW's tech at the moment. Yes, it might be unsure whether I said Wadebridge or Weybridge, but the distance should be the clincher. Or just don't bother designing your own satnav and use Google.

Of course I *can* use Android Auto but it doesn't integrate with the groovy interior lighting to tell me which way to go...
 

stowie

Active Member
I did find an interesting article which discusses "what things are classed as" vs " what things can do". So for example Tesla's autosteer is very advanced and could be considered level 4. Teslas have driven across America without human input. However in Europe the roads are more complicated.

Musk could be classing the same tech as Level 2 in Europe so that the tech is released out of Beta and has approval so that Tesla can start accumulating data, improve the system and later ask for uprating.

Yeah, the levels are a bit movable, but the key in my opinion is the reliability for less driver interaction as the levels increase. Tesla don't publicly align with these levels but level 2 seems the consensus.

I feel that no-one is going to get to production cars (ie, ones we can buy) at level 4 or 5 anytime soon, with some companies such as Cruise getting to that level within highly bounded scenarios.

Reading the Mercedes announcement, this is only level 3 on certain motorways and speed restricted as well.

I think this is where it will go - motorways where the problem is less open then level 4/5 seems possible in the near term and also advantageous. But I think advanced driver aids - and also ones that help behind the scenes rather than promise hands off driving - are going to be the future for now.

Data collection is great, but the models become increasing complex so I wonder what can actually be achieved without turning the car into a very expensive server room on wheels. I think the issues with Cruise were attributed to loss of communication which suggests to me a lot of processing happening off the car and then we are into communications infrastructure being key as well.

My fear is that car companies, realising that the current road systems are too complex for near term autonomous driving start to lobby to make it simpler. Pedestrians being limited to official crossings, cyclists removed from many roads. That kind of thing. Sounds a bit paranoid, but this is the lobby that got the whole jaywalking thing in the US. I cannot see it happening in Europe but who knows?

In comparison my ID4 can't even decide that if I say "Navigate to Tesco Weybridge" (3 miles away) that this is not in fact "Tesco Wadebridge" which is 231 miles away. Basic decision making is beyond VW's tech at the moment. Yes, it might be unsure whether I said Wadebridge or Weybridge, but the distance should be the clincher. Or just don't bother designing your own satnav and use Google.

Of course I *can* use Android Auto but it doesn't integrate with the groovy interior lighting to tell me which way to go...

Speech recognition in cars is horrible. I think google does their speech recognition in the cloud, and I doubt this happens with VW so they are stuck using embedded processors. I also think a lot of this is not AI based, but algorithm. Natural Language AI is normally done on some fairly high end processors which would add quite a lot of cost and complexity.

I have never tried speech recognition in a Tesla so not sure how they implement it or how good it is. I will do some googling :-)

My old car had "speech recognition". Insofar as you could say a name to call on the handsfree and it would then pick someone at random to phone. My slightly newer car is better but still very far from perfect.

I think that car manufacturers will "give up" on proprietary systems at some stage - I believe Volvo and some chinese manufacturers run Android OS for their own multimedia now as it is. They just need to figure out how to integrate your groovy lights!
 
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Deleted member 49

Guest
Probally a stupid question but why could nobody else set up another Twitter like platform...just as easy to use?
 

C R

Senior Member
Probally a stupid question but why could nobody else set up another Twitter like platform...just as easy to use?

There'd be an avalanche of patent and copyright infringement law suits coming your way if you don't make an effort to at least look and feel different.
 
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Deleted member 49

Guest
There'd be an avalanche of patent and copyright infringement law suits coming your way if you don't make an effort to at least look and feel different.
Thats my idea up in smoke 🙄
 
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matticus

Guru
Yet it appears to work without any spam/sign up or in blocker appearing.

Yeah, it's quite friendly to the window-shopper, just wanting to browse around a bit, kick some tyres ...

I'd love to compare this with the first months of twitter. Was it all
"why are we here? Let's make this friendly and positive! How does stuff work? Mustn't mention The Old Place!"
 
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albion

albion

Veteran
https://www.theregister.com/2022/11/16/tesla_nhtsa_report/

"The Associated Press has previously claimed Tesla's crash rate per 1,000 vehicles is "substantially higher than the corresponding numbers for other automakers," although it didn't give further detail"

Complicated. I thought Tesla being expensive high end would have more responsible drivers. However, Inpriir read that Tesla buyers seem to be the opposite, at least in relation to age. Younger drivers buy Tesla, older buy other electric.
 
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