BRFR Cake Stop 'breaking news' miscellany

[AuroraSaab]

I place people who take pleasure in killing another animal for nothing else than personal gratification or for money making purposes as sub-human. I have no moral qualms whatsoever in laughing at this (dead) @rsehole. One less bastard in the world. Bye bye.

Some animal loving people would feel the same if any meat eater died. To them, you're one of the ba@stard @rseholes who they'd like to see dead and laugh at your demise. It's possible to be against trophy hunting whilst not salivating over a human being's death, or at least not feeling the need to announce to the world the pleasure you take from it.

 

[C R]

One of them has intelligence.

The other one was once a British prime minister.

 

[Pross]

That's the bit she looked at in her documentary. The money from the trophy hunting allows an entire eco system to exist. The meat from the kill was also eaten.

I’m not convinced trophy hunting brings in as much money as tourist safaris. Are people really eating lion meat?

 

[First Aspect]

Some animal loving people would feel the same if any meat eater died. To them, you're one of the ba@stard @rseholes who they'd like to see dead and laugh at your demise. It's possible to be against trophy hunting whilst not salivating over a human being's death, or at least not feeling the need to announce to the world the pleasure you take from it.

Is withholding sympathy the same as taking pleasure?

 

[Pinno718]

Some animal loving people would feel the same if any meat eater died.

Well, that's a different argument.

To them, you're one of the ba@stard @rseholes who they'd like to see dead and laugh at your demise.

They probably eat Soya.

It's possible to be against trophy hunting whilst not salivating over a human being's death, or at least not feeling the need to announce to the world the pleasure you take from it.

This definitely isn't the world.

 

[AuroraSaab]

Is withholding sympathy the same as taking pleasure?

No. There's no need to articulate either though really. You could just opine that trophy hunting is a terrible thing and his death was ironic.

 

[Pinno718]

That's the bit she looked at in her documentary. The money from the trophy hunting allows an entire eco system to exist. The meat from the kill was also eaten.

I do understand the arguments for trophy hunting but I find most of them rather simplistic.
Bear in mind, my family has neem involved in conservation for many years. My bother in law's brother runs a conservation area in Kenya. Their father set up the Mwalunganje Elephant Sanctuary in the Shimba hills. This was the first community owned conservation area in Kenya.
This leads on to the trophy hunting argument.
Trophy hunting can only be viewed as temporary. Taking out apex predators in their prime makes little genetic or ecological sense. Wildlife tourism in areas of trophy hunting is generally on the low side. This is because of two obvious reasons - people don't like it and trophy hunting is carried out in the absence of proper conservation work. Places where wildlife tourism exists, yield much more and benefit local communities and the environment to a much greater extent. Trophy hunting in isolation cannot yield the level of monies that will sustain 'whole ecosystems'.
In SA, lions are farmed, released and shot. There may be odd examples where there is wider evidence that the trophy hunting does maintain (at best) habitat but it's not a long term solution,
It's an area that needs much more scrutiny and evidence based outcomes based on studies.

Zakouma National Park in Chad is a wonderful example of tourism benefitting wildlife. Chad had civil war and elephants were being poached to such an extent that they looked like being wiped out in Chad. Now, it's one of the best places in the world for Elephant watching. The government recognised that the tourism benefitted the economy (and also the environment to which the elephant rely on) much more than poaching.

IMHO, the arguments for Trophy hunting is a bit of a one dimensional argument., often failing to take in a multitude of wider complexities.

 

[Pblakeney]

IMO, if you need anything more than a camera to shoot animals then you are doing it wrong, and are a wrong ‘un. Do not expect any sympathy if it goes wrong, and I my well raise a wry smile at nature fighting back.

 

[PurplePenguin]

I’m not convinced trophy hunting brings in as much money as tourist safaris. Are people really eating lion meat?

Yes, they eat lion meat. I believe it is a condition of the permit sometimes that the whole animal must be used.

It's worth noting that a lot of countries allow some form of trophy hunting. For example, you can get a grizzly bear permit in Canada and Alaska. That doesn't mean it is always fine, just that a lot of places view it as acceptable.

In general, I think for people growing up in a UK urban environment it is hard to understand hunting. Meat comes nicely packaged in supermarkets and no thought needs to be put into the killing. Hunting is something rich people do to cute foxes.

 

[First Aspect]

Yes, they eat lion meat. I believe it is a condition of the permit sometimes that the whole animal must be used.

It's worth noting that a lot of countries allow some form of trophy hunting. For example, you can get a grizzly bear permit in Canada and Alaska. That doesn't mean it is always fine, just that a lot of places view it as acceptable.

In general, I think for people growing up in a UK urban environment it is hard to understand hunting. Meat comes nicely packaged in supermarkets and no thought needs to be put into the killing. Hunting is something rich people do to cute foxes.

Can we please take a step back from assessing the justification for hunting based on whether or not the meat was eaten. It is not a relevant factor.

Let me ask a related question. Who is in favour of industrial whaling? After all, the oil was jolly useful, so it must be okay, right?

 

[Pinno718]

In general, I think for people growing up in a UK urban environment it is hard to understand hunting. Meat comes nicely packaged in supermarkets and no thought needs to be put into the killing. Hunting is something rich people do to cute foxes.

What a bollox argument.
Animals reared for human consumption go through abattoir's where they are humanely slaughtered.
I helped ship lambs for slaughter when working on a farm. Yep, cute white woolly lambs. Some of them I hand reared.
Hunting animals does not satisfy a fraction of a percent of demand.
There is very little waste from an animal slaughtered humanely in abattoir's.
Hunting was a necessary human survival tool. Nowadays, it's mainly obsolete.
You have to prove to me that hunting carries sustainable environmental and conservation benefit before chucking the social acceptance argument around.

Well, it's like this: people don't like hunting but they don't mind buying a lump of steak or a Pork chop in the supermarket as if that somehow justifies killing an animal through vicarious pleasure simply because we are separated from killing animals. Therefore, killing animals is fine because we are not used to it and should simply get over it. It's a natural thing to do. It was a natural thing to do.

There is no need to hunt an animal. There is no guarantee you are going to kill the animal in one shot. There's no guarantee that it won't go away wounded to suffer an agonising death through blood loss, lack of ability to fend for itself or infection. There's no guarantee you aren't killing a pregnant female (bears?) or a mother. There is a balance in nature where often Alpha males rule and that's not for human reasons, it's because genetically, the strongest survive. It's particularly significant in a lion pride where the Alpha male will protect the pride and it's young. New ruling males often kill cubs and we might find this abhorrent but it ensures genetic originality.

The other questionable aspect, is why a human being wants to take the life of an animal by shooting it through the cross hairs of a rifle - it's a cowardly act. There's nothing brave or manly about it.

 

[Pross]

Yes, they eat lion meat. I believe it is a condition of the permit sometimes that the whole animal must be used.

It's worth noting that a lot of countries allow some form of trophy hunting. For example, you can get a grizzly bear permit in Canada and Alaska. That doesn't mean it is always fine, just that a lot of places view it as acceptable.

In general, I think for people growing up in a UK urban environment it is hard to understand hunting. Meat comes nicely packaged in supermarkets and no thought needs to be put into the killing. Hunting is something rich people do to cute foxes.

I didn't grow up in an urban environment. I've never hunted but I have fished and as I said above I have no issue with hunting for food or population control. It's pretty hypocritical for non-vegans to criticise hunting for food. Hunting just for the kill is another matter though (whether the animal is eaten to satisfy permit conditions of not) and hunting using methods other than the quickest way of dispatching an animal is just cruelty.

 

[Pross]

No. There's no need to articulate either though really. You could just opine that trophy hunting is a terrible thing and his death was ironic.

His death is on a par with those people that get Darwin awards.

 

[First Aspect]

His death is on a par with those people that get Darwin awards.

It is such a stigma, they never show up to the award ceremony.

 

[PurplePenguin]

I didn't grow up in an urban environment. I've never hunted but I have fished and as I said above I have no issue with hunting for food or population control. It's pretty hypocritical for non-vegans to criticise hunting for food. Hunting just for the kill is another matter though (whether the animal is eaten to satisfy permit conditions of not) and hunting using methods other than the quickest way of dispatching an animal is just cruelty.

That comment wasn't directed at you personally; however, even fishing in the UK is a bit weird, because it almost always involves releasing the fish. I know there wouldn't be any fish left if that wasn't the case, but it is still very different from other countries.