BRFR Cake Stop 'breaking news' miscellany

[Pblakeney]

The battle's already been lost. Mandarin might well be the most widely-spoken language on Earth (mostly thanks to simply the size of the Chinese population), but it's going to take more than that to topple English as the language of science (and aviation). I'll be the first to admit that there's no logic as to "Why English?": it's just a combination of Empire, America, pidgin English (plus some linguistic things about the ease/lack of conjugation, genders and declensions).

The place to promote niche languages isn't going to be through science. There are far better vectors. It is a worthwhile cause.

I thought that the mantra is that language is fluid and changes?
I can see the world becoming bilingual (English and Mandarin) in my lifetime. If I live as long as I hope.

 

[briantrumpet]

I thought that the mantra is that language is fluid and changes?

It does, though here we're talking about % trends in usage of specific languages, rather than the changes within languages themselves, which I think you're referring to, and is a universal phenomenon.

For the time being, the language of science sharing is English, and it's likely to stay that way for quite some time, I'd suggest.

 

[Pblakeney]

It does, though here we're talking about % trends in usage of specific languages, rather than the changes within languages themselves, which I think you're referring to, and is a universal phenomenon.

For the time being, the language of science sharing is English, and it's likely to stay that way for quite some time, I'd suggest.

Some time is relative. I'm thinking 20 years or so.
I am constantly reminded that people default to "this is how it is, this is how it will remain". It is a false assumption.

 

[briantrumpet]

Some time is relative. I'm thinking 20 years or so.
I am constantly reminded that people default to "this is how it is, this is how it will remain". It is a false assumption.

'Aviation English' has been the language of air traffic control for 75 years. OK, so that's mandated for safety reasons, but is now just accepted. I think it'll be the same, in effect, for 'Scientific English'.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aviation_English

It might well be a false assumption, given that the near-monopoly in science papers has evolved rather been mandated, but I think it unlikely that it's going to change in anything as short as 20 years, not least as there would have to be not just an accepted reason for it to change, but the mechanism to do so. Can't see it myself, though China is playing such a blinder in so many ways at the moment, I might well be wrong (but dead by the time any change happens, so I won't care.)

 

[Pblakeney]

'Aviation English' has been the language of air traffic control for 75 years. OK, so that's mandated for safety reasons, but is now just accepted. I think it'll be the same, in effect, for 'Scientific English'.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aviation_English

It might well be a false assumption, given that the near-monopoly in science papers has evolved rather been mandated, but I think it unlikely that it's going to change in anything as short as 20 years, not least as there would have to be not just an accepted reason for it to change, but the mechanism to do so. Can't see it myself, though China is playing such a blinder in so many ways at the moment, I might well be wrong (but dead by the time any change happens, so I won't care.)

You could well be correct but business does not speak traffic control or scientific. I’ve also noticed that the young are happy to watch subtitled media. Subtle influence.

 

[briantrumpet]

You could well be correct but business does not speak traffic control or scientific. I’ve also noticed that the young are happy to watch subtitled media. Subtle influence.

Though AI is definitely a disruptor in all of this, academic writing has standards and protocols for good reason (hence the furore over AI-hallucinated references), so there's an inbuilt check on the kind of rapid change in normal human language. Science maintains its status by maintaining those standards, which have evolved over time to best represent the work of the scientists.

 

[secretsqirrel]

Just rejoined and caught up. Don’t know who the person is who wrote the chemistry phd in Welsh, and what it was all about.

But for Brian 小号 (xiǎo hào) *

Here is a link https://www.chemistryworld.com/careers/the-man-who-did-his-chemistry-phd-in-welsh/4018071.article

And here is an extract….
He considers his thesis ‘a valuable contribution to Welsh language science’. It doesn’t contain any English words, with Beynon deciding against putting some English terms in brackets as the meaning of the new terms was intuitive from the context in which they were used. All of the journal publications associated with his research are in English, so he has no concerns about his research being accessible.


* Trumpet in Mandarin

 

[First Aspect]

Just so you know, what that says is that he/she essentially made up new terminology in Welsh, rather than use the internationally recognised English (normally with Latin or Greek roots) terms.

 

[secretsqirrel]

Just so you know, what that says is that he/she essentially made up new terminology in Welsh, rather than use the internationally recognised English (normally with Latin or Greek roots) terms.

Yup made up some words.

At least the Greek and Latin came from the gods.

 

[briantrumpet]

Just so you know, what that says is that he/she essentially made up new terminology in Welsh, rather than use the internationally recognised English (normally with Latin or Greek roots) terms.

It sounds more like a pointless cul de sac. Even if it were a more mainstream language, why would someone invent new words when there's already established and agreed international terminology? It smacks rather of an attention-seeking stunt rather than something useful, in either linguistic or scientific terms.

 

[secretsqirrel]

It sounds more like a pointless cul de sac. Even if it were a more mainstream language, why would someone invent new words when there's already established and agreed international terminology? It smacks rather of an attention-seeking stunt rather than something useful, in either linguistic or scientific terms.

Perhaps you should read that Kurt Vonnegut passage again.

 

[briantrumpet]

Perhaps you should read that Kurt Vonnegut passage again.

Maybe arguing about Welsh in scientific writing, on a Tuesday morning, is my 'farting about'. 😜

 

[First Aspect]

Yup made up some words.

At least the Greek and Latin came from the gods.

I'll try not to be too patronising by explaining that if you use the internationally scientifically accepted term for something, the rest of the scientific community knows what it is you are referring to. If you don't, they have to figure it out and may or may not get it right.

I checked IUPAC and there's not a "view in Welsh" option.

 

[secretsqirrel]

I'll try not to be too patronising by explaining that if you use the internationally scientifically accepted term for something, the rest of the scientific community knows what it is you are referring to. If you don't, they have to figure it out and may or may not get it right.

I checked IUPAC and there's not a "view in Welsh" option.

From the quote above….⬆️

All of the journal publications associated with his research are in English, so he has no concerns about his research being accessible.

 

[C R]

It sounds more like a pointless cul de sac. Even if it were a more mainstream language, why would someone invent new words when there's already established and agreed international terminology? It smacks rather of an attention-seeking stunt rather than something useful, in either linguistic or scientific terms.

You sound like the Spanish nationalists that used to berate those whose first language was not Spanish for not using Spanish.