BRFR Cake Stop 'breaking news' miscellany

[First Aspect]

Entirely depends on the reasoning. Pinno's reasoning was, I believe, that land based hunting damages the ecosystem; however, while putting forward this argument, he was simultaneously arguing that fishing helps the ecosystem. I find it hard to believe the impact of these two actions can be so different as ultimately fishers and hunters both want live things to entertain themselves.

If your reasoning is that no one should kill without blessing the animal first, then I'm fine with your logic provided you eat Halal or Kosher meat and enjoy the fully blessed stuff.

I think there's a distinction where it's neither an apex predator nor endangered. Also seems that "wild" fish are to an extent farmed.

Those seem like key distinctions between fishing and the big game hunting of the recently dearly departed Mr Gored.

I disagree with Pinno on the point that fishing leads to better monitoring somehow. I guess this is saying that you somehow acquire data if the fish are in decline. But it is a bit too close to the "we will cut down the hedgerows the foxes live in unless you let us kill them" argument for my liking.

Frankly, human attitudes to animals cruelty depend to a degree on our estimation of how cute, intelligent etc they are. Fish are perceived to be effectively automatons, but they aren't. it doesn't negate the points made about big game hunting though.

 

[Pinno718]

Entirely depends on the reasoning. Pinno's reasoning was, I believe, that land based hunting damages the ecosystem;

No it was not. That is incorrect. Where have I said 'land based hunting damages the eco system' ?!
I did say that shooting Apex predators makes little ecological or genetic sense.
The eco system is a balance (read 'The Pyramids of life' by John Reader and Harvey Croze). Our meddling has caused imbalance. Why is trophy hunting a solution?
I did say that Trophy hunting is most probably not better than conservation projects.
Do I have to re-iterate the point or could you re-read what I posted and save me the bother?

 

[Pinno718]

I think there's a distinction where it's neither an apex predator nor endangered. Also seems that "wild" fish are to an extent farmed.

Those seem like key distinctions between fishing and the big game hunting of the recently dearly departed Mr Gored.

I disagree with Pinno on the point that fishing leads to better monitoring somehow. I guess this is saying that you somehow acquire data if the fish are in decline. But it is a bit too close to the "we will cut down the hedgerows the foxes live in unless you let us kill them" argument for my liking.

Frankly, human attitudes to animals cruelty depend to a degree on our estimation of how cute, intelligent etc they are. Fish are perceived to be effectively automatons, but they aren't. it doesn't negate the points made about big game hunting though.

Trout in rivers in Scotland are not in decline.; especially where stocked.
I cannot make the comparison between shooting a Lion and going fly fishing - from the perspective of habitat, conservation and sustainability.

Are Trout waters under threat in Jockland?
Are Trout on the endangered list?
Have I got stuffed trout on the wall in a glass frame? I don't trophy hunt trout. For every 1 I bring home, I release maybe 10 (and I mainly go loch fishing where it's stocked but that's beside the point).

Lions occupy a hierarchy that is important to gene pools, the pride and survival of other species.
Without big cats, herbivores would simply overwhelm grasslands and slowly grow weak and like lemmings, run out of food eventually?
The herbivores need the lions as much as the lions need the herbivores.

I'm not keen on sharks but sharks have a critical role in the balance of life in the seas. Do I want to kill a shark to mount it's teeth on the wall? Nope. Do I find the whole procurement of fins for soup abhorrent? Yes. Sharks are very much instinct driven and a bit thick but it doesn't mean that I want to kill one. They are critical to marine eco systems.
Steve Irwin said that you have to take care of the apex predator. In so doing, you have to take care of the whole pyramid that exists beneath the apex predator. That has massive implication. I do not see where Trophy hunting addresses this.

Tell me where trout fishing undermines the whole pyramid that exists beneath them.

 

[First Aspect]

I'm not particularly bothered about fly fishing, nor so I see any fundamental contradiction that is being alleged by PP. Just that one point about the benefits seemed a little self serving.

It is demonstrably sustainable, but the way the rivers and lochs are stocked is probably buggering something up. Near where I was they just dumped bewildered farmed fish in every few weeks and let the neds catch them before they starved (the fish, not the neds).

 

[Psamathe]

A few aspects to fishing
1. Fish do feel pain ... at least more recent research has found from 2019 Evolution of nociception and pain: evidence from fish models

2. From the perspective of fishing and fish populations in EU/UK it's because daft from a population dynamics perspective and is designed (from a scientific perspective) to cause populations to crash. Fishing quotas in EU/UK waters are set to harvest at the Maximum Sustainable Yield (MSY) and taking fish on that basis creates an unstable population steady state. The population dynamics this produces is catch a few too many fish and the population can crash and worse the new population steady state will be stable and a lot lot lower so, once that has happened even stopping fishing won't return to previous population levels. The way to harvest at MSY and maintain population levels is through gear licensing not quotas. That said harvesting at MSY is not always best commercially but it's an easier concept for politicians who decide this stuff.

Ian

 

[Psamathe]

The difficulty with discussing hunting is that it's ill-defined. Somebody going out hunting to catch a wild animal to take home and feed their family is very different from somebody paying large amounts of money to kill for pleasure.

Ian

 

[Pinno718]

2. From the perspective of fishing and fish populations in EU/UK it's because daft from a population dynamics perspective and is designed (from a scientific perspective) to cause populations to crash. Fishing quotas in EU/UK waters are set to harvest at the Maximum Sustainable Yield (MSY) and taking fish on that basis creates an unstable population steady state. The population dynamics this produces is catch a few too many fish and the population can crash and worse the new population steady state will be stable and a lot lot lower so, once that has happened even stopping fishing won't return to previous population levels. The way to harvest at MSY and maintain population levels is through gear licensing not quotas. That said harvesting at MSY is not always best commercially but it's an easier concept for politicians who decide this stuff.

Ian

That's ^ a deviation if ever there was one. Worse than me.

 

[Pinno718]

I'm not particularly bothered about fly fishing, nor so I see any fundamental contradiction that is being alleged by PP. Just that one point about the benefits seemed a little self serving.

It is demonstrably sustainable, but the way the rivers and lochs are stocked is probably buggering something up. Near where I was they just dumped bewildered farmed fish in every few weeks and let the neds catch them before they starved (the fish, not the neds).

They would surely only be minnows and not worth catching?

 

[Ian H]

I’m not convinced trophy hunting brings in as much money as tourist safaris. Are people really eating lion meat?

Would you eat your pet cat?

 

[briantrumpet]

Would you eat your pet cat?

I think you ought to add "or someone else's", to cover all bases.

 

[BoldonLad]

Would you eat your pet cat?

I dont actually have a pet cat, but, depending on how hungry I was, probably yes 🙂

 

[Pblakeney]

Would you eat your pet cat?

Many a rumour that if you have ordered a Chinese takeaway then you already have eaten someone's pet cat.

 

[CXRAndy]

Trout in rivers in Scotland are not in decline.; especially where stocked

So they keep replenishing the the decline in trout?

I suppose that's one way to overcome the decline

 

[AndyRM]

I dont actually have a pet cat, but, depending on how hungry I was, probably yes 🙂

I wouldn't fancy it to be honest. Sinewy beasties that generally eat highly processed food, so I reckon what little meat you could get off one would taste rank. Still, if there was nothing else available I'd give it a go.

 

[C R]

I wouldn't fancy it to be honest. Sinewy beasties that generally eat highly processed food, so I reckon what little meat you could get off one would taste rank. Still, if there was nothing else available I'd give it a go.

I've been told that cat is quite lean and dry, much like rabbit. I've never knowingly had cat. so can't confirm or deny.