BRFR Cake Stop 'breaking news' miscellany

[First Aspect]

@BoldonLad's correct point is that from the employers' point of view a Masters (regardless of the nature of the course) is often required, whereas once upon a time, when only 10% of school leavers went to university (1980s), a Bachelors had the same cachet.

Is that really true? For our non-attorney and trainee roles I wouldn't look past whether they had an undergrad or not. A masters would only be relevant for a paralegal if it was in law. Even then I'd say it was more of a curiosity than of value.

 

[briantrumpet]

Is that really true? For our non-attorney and trainee roles I wouldn't look past whether they had an undergrad or not. A masters would only be relevant for a paralegal if it was in law. Even then I'd say it was more of a curiosity than of value.

I suspect it depends on the sector. To be fair, several of the Exeter University students I've known seem to have ended up with decent roles with their first degree.

 

[Psamathe]

Is that really true? For our non-attorney and trainee roles I wouldn't look past whether they had an undergrad or not. A masters would only be relevant for a paralegal if it was in law. Even then I'd say it was more of a curiosity than of value.

For a fair portion of my career I was also having to recruit software developers into fairly technical developer roles (low'ish level, C/C++/assembler). And, whilst everybody I recruited had a degree, looking back it surprised me that I never recruited anybody that had a Computer Science degree. Computer Science graduates always very clearly not up to the task whereas most other science graduates were (very clear distinction at interview).

And software developer roles I was recruiting, inter-personal skills really didn't count for much, it was virtually all down to technical ability (and at the interview I would set the applicant a short exercise, pretty straightforward one but it revealed their thought processes and understanding).

I never distinguished between with or without degree, degree with hons., masters or doctorate.

 

[Pross]

Isn't that true of lots of thing? I know NMW earners who have expensive holidays, even expensive tattoos, beauty treatments, private education, private healthcare, etc etc, there must be lots of people stretching their finances to live "somewhere nice" (although that may ultimately be an investment). It is what I like to call "personal choice", and, provided they do not expect me to pay for their choices, I have no issue with it. I do also expect to be allowed to have my personal choices of course, with the same proviso, ie, if I choose to spend my cash that way, then, I bear the consequences, if any.

Sure but there seems to be a crossover amongst some people I know who then say they can’t afford to get a house of their own or can’t afford other essentials in life. My daughters ex-boyfriend was always changing cars but then when they split up she had debt collectors showing up at her door (house has always been hers alone) looking for him.

I’m currently planning for when I need to change cars. I’ve been very lucky with my current one that was a gift from a former boss (well, I sacrificed a couple of annual bonuses) when I joined his new company as he couldn’t provide a company car. It’s done me well, I’ve had it 9 years and wracked up 150,000 miles on it - it’s now getting close to quarter of a million on the clock - but it isn’t going to go on for ever. I’m torn between trying to get my current company to sign up to a green car salary sacrifice scheme or buying a fairly low mileage car less than 3 years old. In both cases the cost is quite scary despite me earning well above average and not having an extravagant lifestyle so I’m genuinely perplexed how some people I know afford what they have (even more so those who have kids in private education having recently attended an event at a very minor league private school and seen their fees!).

 

[briantrumpet]

To follow on from the discussion... I think that this is where I am with my thoughts about driving and cars. It's not that they aren't useful at times, but...

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-sty...-see-the-world-through-drivers-eyes-any-more/

 

[BoldonLad]

Masters and doctorate are not just higher grades on a standard degree but indicate further more specialised and different education/research.

eg degree is generally taught whereas a Phd is generally research and publications. Very different nature and very different assessment. My experience of my own masters is that is sat between normal degree and Phd ie some taught but a very significant part novel research (new as in not just repeating experiments but moving into unknowns.

Yeah. But, I didn't say they were the same. I said that Degrees were now so 'common" that is was necessary to go higher, in order to get your CV even in the in-tray.

At least, that is the situation among my younger family (grand children, etc) and acquaintances. I personally am long past the job hunting phase of my life.

 

[briantrumpet]

Will no-one think of the nannies?

 

[briantrumpet]

Act of religious domination ongoing in Trafalgar Square. Call the cops.

 

[Pross]

Skipping baths? Are these the made up middle-classes The Telegraph got in trouble writing about?

 

[First Aspect]

Skipping baths? Are these the made up middle-classes The Telegraph got in trouble writing about?

This is economising for innumerates. Who can afford a nanny but questions the cost of hot water.

Since it's the Telegraph, there is a good chance that the answer is no one.

 

[BoldonLad]

Sure but there seems to be a crossover amongst some people I know who then say they can’t afford to get a house of their own or can’t afford other essentials in life. My daughters ex-boyfriend was always changing cars but then when they split up she had debt collectors showing up at her door (house has always been hers alone) looking for him.

I’m currently planning for when I need to change cars. I’ve been very lucky with my current one that was a gift from a former boss (well, I sacrificed a couple of annual bonuses) when I joined his new company as he couldn’t provide a company car. It’s done me well, I’ve had it 9 years and wracked up 150,000 miles on it - it’s now getting close to quarter of a million on the clock - but it isn’t going to go on for ever. I’m torn between trying to get my current company to sign up to a green car salary sacrifice scheme or buying a fairly low mileage car less than 3 years old. In both cases the cost is quite scary despite me earning well above average and not having an extravagant lifestyle so I’m genuinely perplexed how some people I know afford what they have (even more so those who have kids in private education having recently attended an event at a very minor league private school and seen their fees!).

Clearly, I probably do not know YOUR friends and acquaintances, but, in my 78 years, I have concluded that looking at other peoples finances, from the outside, and/or listening to other peoples "I cant afford x, y, or z" is not productive.

I have four daughters, one is a significant earner, similarly, he husband. One is single and earns NMW. The other two (both with partners) have more "medium" earnings (ie a teacher and a Nurse). Superficially, you would be hard pressed to guess which one is the high earner. Quite what daughter No3 and her husband DO with their money, is a mystery, but, they seem to have remarkaly little to show for it.

I also have two sons, one of whom earns even more than the well paid daughter No3 and husband, combined. He is paying school fees for one child, but, other than that, I struggle to understand where the cash goes.

Daughter No4, (NMW) has three foreign holidays booked for this year, indulges in expensive "beauty treatments" (eg £200+ for her eyebrows). Every outing requires a new outfit, her wardrobe is positively bulging at the seams.

Finally, I personally will often use the phrase, "I can't afford that", what I really mean is, "I choose not to spend my money that way".

As I say, other people's finances are a mystery, my advice is, concentrate on your own and ignore what other people are doing.

 

[Pross]

This is economising for innumerates. Who can afford a nanny but questions the cost of hot water.

Since it's the Telegraph, there is a good chance that the answer is no one.

It’s The Times this time, dumbing down is contagious it seems.

 

[BoldonLad]

I suspect it depends on the sector. To be fair, several of the Exeter University students I've known seem to have ended up with decent roles with their first degree.

Yes, I would agree, an extent. I have a niece, who qualified as a Barrister, but, was unable to obtain the final "pupilage" (I think that is what it is called), she is now Company Secretary of a major Financial Company. Historically, I worked in software sector, Degrees where a poor indicator of ability, in my experience.

 

[Psamathe]

Yeah. But, I didn't say they were the same. I said that Degrees were now so 'common" that is was necessary to go higher, in order to get your CV even in the in-tray.

At least, that is the situation among my younger family (grand children, etc) and acquaintances. I personally am long past the job hunting phase of my life.

From watching youngsters talking about the recruitment challenges they are experiencing I'm finding it difficult to get an accurate feel for the market. Even back "in my day" there were some individuals who'd apply for loads of positions and still not get a job. Many of the reports are anecdotal interviewing to one or two people who've been unsuccessful.

One I saw a few days ago really highlighted the assumptions they make based on no foundation: a young girl who was declaring how her online interview must have been with an AI as she got a rejection within 2 hrs ... but when I was face to face interviewing some candidates quickly showed they were unsuitable so I'd reject them during the interview (not after 2 hrs) (took longer in those days as postal services were slower than e-mail of today), not face to face but terminate the interview early and be polite to them. Being rejected within 2 hrs doesn't indicate AI or non-AI interview yet this girl's account was not contested.

Maybe those talking about the challenges are just those being repeatedly unsuccessful and we're not hearing from the successful ones. My first 2 jobs I didn't even fill out a CV/application. Companies approached University seeking people from the course I was finishing and I was being slow about applying for anything so my supervisor gave them my name.

2 years into my career I was told of a job I really wanted but even though applications still open I didn't apply as they'd already had 700 applications.

 

[First Aspect]

Yes, I would agree, an extent. I have a niece, who qualified as a Barrister, but, was unable to obtain the final "pupilage" (I think that is what it is called), she is now Company Secretary of a major Financial Company. Historically, I worked in software sector, Degrees where a poor indicator of ability, in my experience.

Degrees have in the past been a useful indicator of a young person's independence, in terms of living and self directed learning (because no one actually forces you to learn at uni). It can also be a marker of a certain type of academic ability. More useful in some roles than others.

Now that more people live at home while at uni, and more people go, the low water line for ability has to be lower than it used to be and you may, or may not, be hiring a child. The way degrees a modularised now also I think results in more spoon feeding and bite sized courses closer to a school setting. Even graduate degrees can be like this. There are those PhDs (like me) who got on with it with limited guidance, and those who just execute the research they are instructed to do by their supervisor. Those people often have better theses on paper, and more publications, but are also often less equipped with things like initiative and capability for independent thought.