BRFR Cake Stop 'breaking news' miscellany

[Pinno718]

Is it just me, or is this 'fuck farming in any form' tiresome? Sure, the natural world is a thing of marvel and to be celebrated, but it's not an either/or, and farming has shaped pretty much every inch of the Yorkshire Dales, and as such, would seem to provide a useful reference/logo.

View attachment 14702

Sheep grazing, when managed properly at low densities, benefits moorlands by maintaining biodiversity through the control of dominant heather and scrub, preventing them from choking out other plant species. They create a patchwork of vegetation heights suitable for wildlife, help reduce wildfire risk by consuming fuel, and support traditional rural skills and local economies.

 

[CXRAndy]

Exactly the same could be for reducing UK population to benefit the natural balance of the country

 

[briantrumpet]

Sheep grazing, when managed properly at low densities, benefits moorlands by maintaining biodiversity through the control of dominant heather and scrub, preventing them from choking out other plant species. They create a patchwork of vegetation heights suitable for wildlife, help reduce wildfire risk by consuming fuel, and support traditional rural skills and local economies.

It's actually a very complicated subject, of course. I'm equally aware that sheep farming is to blame for a lot of problems (for instance, the look of the largely treeless Lake District – which is environmentally problematic, especially with climate change). On Dartmoor, for instance, overuse of sheep is not beneficial to diverse flora & fauna, as they graze so tightly that certain plants don't thrive, and cattle and ponies are much better in that respect, as long as used in moderation.

It's just that at the same time I find this type of thing really annoying as a way of belittling farming and ignoring how it's shaped our countryside, and if well done (or at least better), is an important part of managing it better in the future than in the past. It doesn't take much research to realise that 'natural spaces' need managing, and that farming, in some form, is the best way to do that.

 

[CXRAndy]

 

[briantrumpet]

Quite glad I got a month's supply of 8 per day on my last prescription... I've both saved some money and have got more than enough to do myself serious harm.

(Don't worry, I am joking.)

 

[Pblakeney]

It doesn't take much research to realise that 'natural spaces' need managing

I'm not so sure about that. Nature seemed to manage quite fine in "undiscovered" areas before people came along.
Managing it to be how we'd like it is another issue.

 

[TailWindHome]

Exactly the same could be for reducing UK population to benefit the natural balance of the country

 

[CXRAndy]

I do have a strong jaw line

Ive got enough natural habitat to survive off

 

[Pinno718]

It's actually a very complicated subject, of course. I'm equally aware that sheep farming is to blame for a lot of problems (for instance, the look of the largely treeless Lake District – which is environmentally problematic, especially with climate change). On Dartmoor, for instance, overuse of sheep is not beneficial to diverse flora & fauna, as they graze so tightly that certain plants don't thrive, and cattle and ponies are much better in that respect, as long as used in moderation.

It's just that at the same time I find this type of thing really annoying as a way of belittling farming and ignoring how it's shaped our countryside, and if well done (or at least better), is an important part of managing it better in the future than in the past. It doesn't take much research to realise that 'natural spaces' need managing, and that farming, in some form, is the best way to do that.

Which is slightly contrary to what you said but points taken.
Too many sheep is a problem, i'e overgrazing.
Humans mangled the land and then manage the land after it's been mangled. Very natural.
Wot Blakey said.

 

[briantrumpet]

I'm not so sure about that. Nature seemed to manage quite fine in "undiscovered" areas before people came along.
Managing it to be how we'd like it is another issue.

Fair point. There is an irony in how much management the 'idealised areas' of national parks or 'rewilded' spaces need, but I guess that part of that is that the 'idealism' values what might be an 'unnatural diversity' that needs hands-on management (sometimes quite intense and interventionist) that gives the impression of being entirely natural, but in an environment that includes humans and their activities.

Incidentally, I was watching this excellent video about Vercors, where my French paradise is, and I'd not realised that it wasn't just the Griffon vultures that had to be reintroduced - all the iconic wildlife has had to be reintroduced and supported/encouraged/protected (they feed the Griffon and Bearded vultures carcases throughout the year, I think), but at the same time farming practices that embrace the reintroductions are also supported. The chewy one is wolves, which have also been reintroduced, but are still problematic as far as farming/humans are concerned: there aren't easy answers for peaceful co-existence.

(Sorry, no English subtitles)


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOfMHChIHBs

 

[briantrumpet]

Which is slightly contrary to what you said but points taken.
Too many sheep is a problem, i'e overgrazing.
Humans mangled the land and then manage the land after it's been mangled. Very natural.
Wot Blakey said.

I think the two are consistent, but in my fuzzybrain, I might not have expressed myself completely clearly. I'm only sleeping four hours a night at the moment, which is suboptimal.

 

[PurplePenguin]

Any analogy has its limits. It doesn't make them valueless.

The injectable amorphous protein to over inflate supermarket chicken fillets market might work. Doesnt matter if it's dog, cat, turkey, chicken or pig protein, but I bet they have different prices.

Over on the other thread, one forum expert is arguing that the US produces enough oil for itself, so a world wide shortage will have no impact. Of course, everyone will dismiss this argument for the trolling it is, because the price of the commodity still increases in the US. That's a better analogy for you.

 

[icowden]

I'm not so sure about that. Nature seemed to manage quite fine in "undiscovered" areas before people came along.

But the problem is that people *have* come along, and putting the genie back in the bottle isn't easy. We now have invasive species of flora and fauna which, without management would just destroy "natural" woodland, so we need to manage it. To pull back the damaging knotweed, ivy, and other plants, or to cull animals such as deer which would have an out of control population, destroy woodlands and have far more disease and suffering without human management.

 

[Pblakeney]

But the problem is that people *have* come along, and putting the genie back in the bottle isn't easy. We now have invasive species of flora and fauna which, without management would just destroy "natural" woodland, so we need to manage it. To pull back the damaging knotweed, ivy, and other plants, or to cull animals such as deer which would have an out of control population, destroy woodlands and have far more disease and suffering without human management.

Meh. I say leave it be. Nature is capable of looking after itself if left alone. It may not be as it was, but it will be as it will be.
On a larger scale, I think we fool ourselves into thinking we are in charge of nature. We can ruin it, but we are not in charge.

 

[midlandsgrimpeur]

I'm not so sure about that. Nature seemed to manage quite fine in "undiscovered" areas before people came along.

This is exact same argument I use when my wife wants me to mow the lawns.