But Where Are You Really From?

matticus

Über Member
I was merely responding to your picture and asking which of these people is most likely to get their hair moved.

With its implication that she should accept/ expect such things be done to her.
Well then, for clarity, I don't think that she should accept such things.

I didn't actually say it was implicitly racist, it was just plain rude
Excellent, something else we agree on!
 
OP
OP
Bromptonaut

Bromptonaut

Rohan Man
Is that nuance that when a court official repeatedly says something that someone of colour finds offensive it's racist, but when you use a term, knowing that it offends a large section of the ethnic minority community because we had the conversation a few weeks ago it's not?

Can you identify the 'large section of the ethnic minority community' who are offended?

There's certainly an issue with its use where a more specific description might be better. As an example Black, with or without an African or Caribbean qualifier, for Ms Fulani. In the absence of a replacement term it's still OK as a catch all.

Useful guidance here from the Law Society.
 

mudsticks

Legendary Member
Well then, for clarity, I don't think that she should accept such things.


Excellent, something else we agree on!
But meanwhile you showed a picture and said (and I quote)

"And which of these three are you most likely to move their hair to read a name badge?"

Which rather implies you do think it might be acceptable, and that ms Fulani shouldn't have objected...

You still haven't told us which of us posters are willing to give it out, but not take it.??
 

matticus

Über Member
But meanwhile you showed a picture and said (and I quote)

"And which of these three are you most likely to move their hair to read a name badge?"

Which rather implies you do think it might be acceptable, and that ms Fulani shouldn't have objected...

I think you've missed the (ever-so-slightly) deeper point.
 

mudsticks

Legendary Member
I think you've missed the (ever-so-slightly) deeper point.

Which is what?

You mean the one where people feel uncomfortable when racism is called out, and will try to deny, deflect, dissemble, and blame shift, rather than think..

"Oh yeah, maybe there is some learning to do and adjustment of attitude and behaviour to be made, let's crack on with making that happen"

But they don't do that , they double down on the defense of the indefensible.

Or did you mean some other deeper meaning.??
 

matticus

Über Member
Exactly. Now, since I made my first post, more info has come out, including various photos such as this of Ngozi with 2 colleagues (I think?)
View attachment 2605
Now, if you're a Royal aide charged with general "party hosting" duties, which of these three are you most likely to ask "Where are you from?" Would it be the black woman on the right? If not, is that because of racism?
And which of these three are you most likely to move their hair to read a name badge?
1670244141915.png

@mudsticks - my point being, you've said that Ngozi was asked this question due to her apparent race (and that you view this is as racism). I'm suggesting there were other factors i.e. why do you think she didn't ask the woman on the right?

EDIT: here is the comment about hair. Just putting it here for completeness, make of it what you will:
Describing how Lady Susan also touched her hair during the incident, she said: 'I was stood next to two other women - black women - and she (Lady Susan) just made a beeline for me, and she took my locks and moved it out of the way so that she could see my name badge.

'That's a no-no. I wouldn't put my hands in someone's hair, and culturally it's not appropriate.'
 
Last edited:

Unkraut

Master of the Inane Comment
Location
Germany
Insensitive, sure. But that doesn't automatically become racist just because it's done to a black woman.

The Court of the twitter mob - the professionally offended - seems to have decided it does, so that verdict settles the matter.

It seems to me that what we have here is a tactless old lady possibly with a vestige of British Empire type racism, although no-one can be sure of that. I don't think being tactless is a moral virtue, but I'm not sure it deserves the reaction is has got.

On the other hand we have ageism (she's old), classism (she's attached to the court), and racism (she's white). No prejudice there then! We will see if this is the woke religion at work if she apologises but is never forgiven.
 

winjim

Welcome yourself into the new modern crisis
 

mudsticks

Legendary Member
View attachment 2616
@mudsticks - my point being, you've said that Ngozi was asked this question due to her apparent race (and that you view this is as racism). I'm suggesting there were other factors i.e. why do you think she didn't ask the woman on the right?

EDIT: here is the comment about hair. Just putting it here for completeness, make of it what you will:
Ms Fulani wasn't just 'asked a question' though, was she?
That's you being totally disingenuous for a start.

She was repeatedly badgered by Lady Hussey, in a manner which is very clear in it's tone and intent.

You might want to carry on pretending otherwise as some kind of face saving exercise, or for some other motive, your call.

We have no idea what other 'conversations' went on between other participants on that day, without their being reported so bringing the woman on the right into it is an irrelevance.

It's just more of the same dissembling, deviation and distraction..
 

matticus

Über Member
It seems to me that what we have here is a tactless old lady possibly with a vestige of British Empire type racism, although no-one can be sure of that. I don't think being tactless is a moral virtue, but I'm not sure it deserves the reaction is has got.

On the other hand we have ageism (she's old), classism (she's attached to the court), and racism (she's white). No prejudice there then! We will see if this is the woke religion at work if she apologises but is never forgiven.
I'm told there is no prejudice against her:

Superannuated old fossil.
 

Mugshot

Über Member
The Court of the twitter mob - the professionally offended - seems to have decided it does, so that verdict settles the matter.

It seems to me that what we have here is a tactless old lady possibly with a vestige of British Empire type racism, although no-one can be sure of that. I don't think being tactless is a moral virtue, but I'm not sure it deserves the reaction is has got.

On the other hand we have ageism (she's old), classism (she's attached to the court), and racism (she's white). No prejudice there then! We will see if this is the woke religion at work if she apologises but is never forgiven.

Are you channeling Neil Oliver?
 

mudsticks

Legendary Member
The Court of the twitter mob - the professionally offended - seems to have decided it does, so that verdict settles the matter.

It seems to me that what we have here is a tactless old lady possibly with a vestige of British Empire type racism, although no-one can be sure of that. I don't think being tactless is a moral virtue, but I'm not sure it deserves the reaction is has got.

On the other hand we have ageism (she's old), classism (she's attached to the court), and racism (she's white). No prejudice there then! We will see if this is the woke religion at work if she apologises but is never forgiven.

The vast bulk of any 'ageism' has come from people trying to excuse Lady Husseys behaviour by saying that she can't be expected to know any better, because she's over eighty.

Which is a pretty pathetic excuse, and insulting to older people.


'Professionally offended' what does that even mean ??
Same as 'woke religion'
This is all straight out of DT comments section.

You don't have to be on twitter to get that the conversation was about putting ms Fulani in her place, and that it only took place because of her appearance and the prejudgements that Lady Hussey drew from that.
Her sense of entitlement meant that she kept on persisting with her interrogation, long after any kind of decently adjusted social awareness switch would have turned her mouth off.

'Woke' is a routine slur chucked at people who are making some kind of effort to be socially aware, who are having some empathy for people who are not them.

As a religious person yourself I'd have thought you'd approve such efforts to have empathy - but I guess that's me 'prejudging' right there..

As for making out the poor old white upper classes are being oppressed ??
Pull the other one mate, no one's buying that, are they? 🙄
 
Top Bottom