But Where Are You Really From?

bobzmyunkle

Member
You cannot know what motivated Lady Hussey to say what she did. Is it fair to assume that she is racially prejudiced?
And that sums up a lot of the debate we're having on about here.
On one side, the assumption that racism occurred - there appears to be no argument about the hair touching or the content of the conversation, and Lady Hussey has resigned.
On the other side, the assumption that it may not be racism because we don't know if Lady Hussey was consciously racist.

Is the excuse of not meaning to be racist really valid?
 

shep

Guru
I wonder if any good has come out of this with regards to people's thoughts on 'wokeism ', will it make people think more carefully about what they say to others or will it stoke the fire on the 'war' do we feel?

Just wondering what people on here think may have been achieved, apart from Lady what's her name quietly retiring.

'Good job done ' perhaps or ' have you heard the latest cr*p'.
 

matticus

Über Member
On the other side, the assumption that it may not be racism because we don't know if Lady Hussey was consciously racist.

Is the excuse of not meaning to be racist really valid?

The most fundamental definition of racism is this:
Racism is the belief that groups of humans possess different behavioral traits corresponding to inherited attributes and can be divided based on the superiority of one race over another.

Can you explain what "consciously racist" actually means? Is it actually possible to not realise that you think one race is superior to another?
 

mudsticks

Legendary Member
The most fundamental definition of racism is this:
Racism is the belief that groups of humans possess different behavioral traits corresponding to inherited attributes and can be divided based on the superiority of one race over another.

Can you explain what "consciously racist" actually means? Is it actually possible to not realise that you think one race is superior to another?

Absolutely it is if you've grown up and existed in a society that is structured in such a way that this thinking is often implicit, not explicit .

See colonialism, see empire, see hierachies based on skin tone, see (measurable) institutional racism in many of our institutions ..

And you go along with those social 'norms' because either you haven't thought about or noticed such injustices.

Or else maybe you kind of know that racism is there but you'd prefer not to acknowledge it or tackle it.
 

Ian H

Über Member
The most fundamental definition of racism is this:
Racism is the belief that groups of humans possess different behavioral traits corresponding to inherited attributes and can be divided based on the superiority of one race over another.

Can you explain what "consciously racist" actually means? Is it actually possible to not realise that you think one race is superior to another?

Yes. It is certainly possible - in fact it's a common trait - to treat people differently on the basis of their appearance without being aware that you're doing it. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Implicit_stereotype
 

matticus

Über Member
See colonialism, see empire, see hierachies based on skin tone,

I think even the most insulated, privileged citizens living under apartheid would be AWARE of such hierarchies!

Of course many didn't think there was anything wrong with it; that's the problem.
 

matticus

Über Member
Yes. It is certainly possible - in fact it's a common trait - to treat people differently on the basis of their appearance without being aware that you're doing it. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Implicit_stereotype

But we ALL do that, EVERY time we meet someone! Even in a group entirely of our own race/gender/class.
Condemning others as worse than yourself in this regard, or labelling someone else's view as "RACIST", smack of thought-crime to me.
 

glasgowcyclist

Well-Known Member
I wonder if any good has come out of this with regards to people's thoughts on 'wokeism ', will it make people think more carefully about what they say to others or will it stoke the fire on the 'war' do we feel?

Just wondering what people on here think may have been achieved, apart from Lady what's her name quietly retiring.

'Good job done ' perhaps or ' have you heard the latest cr*p'.

The publicity surrounding the persistent questioning of someone’s nationality (even when already answered) should serve to remind those who need reminding what is intrusive and badgering. You don’t hector somebody just because their answer doesn’t fit with your expectations or prejudices.

Hussey has apologised for her behaviour and stepped back from her honorary (unpaid) role. She’ll be unaffected financially.

The view of Buckingham Palace was also clear in describing the comments as unacceptable and deeply regrettable:

"We take this incident extremely seriously and have investigated immediately to establish the full details.

In this instance, unacceptable and deeply regrettable comments have been made. We have reached out to Ngozi Fulani on this matter, and are inviting her to discuss all elements of her experience in person if she wishes.

In the meantime, the individual concerned would like to express her profound apologies for the hurt caused and has stepped aside from her honorary role with immediate effect.”

 

matticus

Über Member
I wonder if any good has come out of this with regards to people's thoughts on 'wokeism ', will it make people think more carefully about what they say to others or will it stoke the fire on the 'war' do we feel?

Just wondering what people on here think may have been achieved, apart from Lady what's her name quietly retiring.
It gave Nigel Farage some extra air-time. Not sure if that was part of the plan ...
 

mudsticks

Legendary Member
It gave Nigel Farage some extra air-time. Not sure if that was part of the plan ...
He gets air time anyway..
For some unfathomable reason .


To suggest there was a 'plan' when this event was reported and discussed suggests that you think there was some kind of 'set up' going on here.
 

glasgowcyclist

Well-Known Member
The most fundamental definition of racism is this:
Racism is the belief that groups of humans possess different behavioral traits corresponding to inherited attributes and can be divided based on the superiority of one race over another.

Can you explain what "consciously racist" actually means? Is it actually possible to not realise that you think one race is superior to another?

That very next sentence from that reference reads: It may also mean prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against other people because they are of a different race or ethnicity.

It doesn’t help this discussion to narrow the parameters.

Hussey displayed her prejudice, consciously or otherwise, and has since apologised.
 

Ian H

Über Member
But we ALL do that, EVERY time we meet someone! Even in a group entirely of our own race/gender/class.
Indeed, that's the point I was making. If you have any self-awareness you will be able to learn from your interactions.

Condemning others as worse than yourself in this regard, or labelling someone else's view as "RACIST", smack of thought-crime to me.
In the case in point she condemned herself by her own actions.
 
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