But Where Are You Really From?

[matticus]

But this:
Q:Oh - where are you from
A: Sistah space
Q: Yeah but Where are you from?
A: Hackney
Q: No but Where are you from?
A: You mean my ancestors?
Q: Yeah but where are you from?
A: Uk
Q: No but where are you from?
A: England
Q: Yeah but where are you FROM
A: Sorry - am I not getting through?
Q: No but where are YOU from?
A: I think I've covered this - can we move on?
Q: Oh you're Carribeann.
A: Seriously?

Is not OK.

Here's a tip:
If "Lady" is so clearly damned by her own words, why not just copy-n-paste them from the transcript?
That would save you making embarassing errors (I'm sure you haven't deliberately mis-represented large parts of the dialogue).

 

[matticus]

So they have to try to deflect the discourse onto stuff like 'wokeism' and any of the other words used to sneer at people trying to bring about change and progress .

It might be patronizing to quote this text at you twice, but in case you want a

Spoiler: refresher

...there is this sense sometimes of the way of me making change is to be as judgmental as possible about other people, and that’s enough. If I tweet or hashtag about how you didn’t do something right or used the wrong verb, then I can sit back and feel pretty good about myself. Did you see how woke I was, I called you out.

 

[mudsticks]

Here's a tip:
If "Lady" is so clearly damned by her own words, why not just copy-n-paste them from the transcript?
That would save you making embarassing errors (I'm sure you haven't deliberately mis-represented large parts of the dialogue).

If anything he's toned the language down..

 

[mudsticks]

It might be patronizing to quote this text at you twice, but in case you want a

Spoiler: refresher

...there is this sense sometimes of the way of me making change is to be as judgmental as possible about other people, and that’s enough. If I tweet or hashtag about how you didn’t do something right or used the wrong verb, then I can sit back and feel pretty good about myself. Did you see how woke I was, I called you out.

Yes I do remember you quoting Mr Obama on here previously.

Patronisingly towards me or otherwise.
You might have to explain why it's relevant to repost though ..

 

[matticus]

You might have to explain why it's relevant to repost though ..

For one thing, to make you aware of the wider usage of "woke", beyond these hallowed walls.

 

[glasgowcyclist]

We spent the first 14 pages on those points.

Hmmm. Your post suggested you were struggling with the concept of unconscious racism which may have been what Hussey engaged in but if you don’t like discussing that then fine. However, please don’t edit my posts, there’s a good lad.

 

[matticus]

However, please don’t edit my posts, there’s a good lad.

Are you new to NACA, my dear old thing?

 

[glasgowcyclist]

Are you new to NACA, my dear old thing?

Are you unfamiliar with etiquette and fair debate, or even manners?

 

[mudsticks]

Are you unfamiliar with etiquette and fair debate, or even manners?

Given the exchange he's trying to defend, that possibility has to be taken into account

 

[mudsticks]

For one thing, to make you aware of the wider usage of "woke", beyond these hallowed walls.

Thanks for letting me know

 

[matticus]

Are you unfamiliar with etiquette and fair debate, or even manners?

I don't believe so, no. Now, your turn:

matticus said:
Are you new to NACA, my dear old thing?

 

[icowden]

If "Lady" is so clearly damned by her own words, why not just copy-n-paste them from the transcript?

Ok - I'll help you out.

Part A: Legitimate Enquiry
Lady SH: “Where are you from?”
Ms Fulani: “Sistah Space.”
SH: “No where do you come from?
Ms Fulani: “We’re based in Hackney.”
SH: “No, what part of Africa are YOU from?”
Ms Fulani: “I don’t know, they didn’t leave any records.”

Part B: Still just about OK, but bordering on racist:
SH: “Well, you must know where you’re from, I spent time in France. Where are you from?”
Ms Fulani: “Here, UK”

Part C: Arguably Racist:
SH: “No but what Nationality are you?”
Ms Fulani: “I am born here and am British.”

Part D: Definitely racist:
SH: “No, but where do you really come from, where do your people come from?”
Ms Fulani: “‘My people’, lady, what is this?”
SH: “Oh I can see I am going to have a challenge getting you to say where you’re from. When did you first come here?”
Ms Fulani: “Lady! I am a British national, my parents came here in the 50’s when…”
SH: “Oh, I knew we’d get there in the end, you’re Caribbean!”
Ms Fulani: “No lady, I am of African heritage, Caribbean descent and British nationality.”
SH: “Oh so you’re from….”

The first part above is fine. There is some confusion as Ms Fulani things Lady H is talking about Sistah Space.
Part B is a little persistent but Ms Fulani finally answers the question that Lady H seems to want answered.
Part C is very persistent and overlabouring the question but a definitive answer is confirmed.
Part D is clearly "well you can't be from the UK because you look strange and have a funny name" territory.

I concede that for simplification, I did reword the exchange to make it more Vicki Pollard / Lauren Cooper to emphasise the relentlessness of the repetition of the question as Lady H refuses to accept any answers other than the one she wants to hear.

It is quite possible that Lady H did not intend to be racist or to slight Ms Fulani in any way and that she is merely out of touch and elderly. It doesn't change the fact that this was not appropriate, and perhaps she is not the right person to be doing what she was doing. That said, my grandma was 103 when she passed away this year and she would not have pursued such a line of questioning for so long. Lady H seems to have no self-awareness at all.

 

[mudsticks]

Ok - I'll help you out.

Part A: Legitimate Enquiry
Lady SH: “Where are you from?”
Ms Fulani: “Sistah Space.”
SH: “No where do you come from?
Ms Fulani: “We’re based in Hackney.”
SH: “No, what part of Africa are YOU from?”
Ms Fulani: “I don’t know, they didn’t leave any records.”

Part B: Still just about OK, but bordering on racist:
SH: “Well, you must know where you’re from, I spent time in France. Where are you from?”
Ms Fulani: “Here, UK”

Part C: Arguably Racist:
SH: “No but what Nationality are you?”
Ms Fulani: “I am born here and am British.”

Part D: Definitely racist:
SH: “No, but where do you really come from, where do your people come from?”
Ms Fulani: “‘My people’, lady, what is this?”
SH: “Oh I can see I am going to have a challenge getting you to say where you’re from. When did you first come here?”
Ms Fulani: “Lady! I am a British national, my parents came here in the 50’s when…”
SH: “Oh, I knew we’d get there in the end, you’re Caribbean!”
Ms Fulani: “No lady, I am of African heritage, Caribbean descent and British nationality.”
SH: “Oh so you’re from….”

The first part above is fine. There is some confusion as Ms Fulani things Lady H is talking about Sistah Space.
Part B is a little persistent but Ms Fulani finally answers the question that Lady H seems to want answered.
Part C is very persistent and overlabouring the question but a definitive answer is confirmed.
Part D is clearly "well you can't be from the UK because you look strange and have a funny name" territory.

I concede that for simplification, I did reword the exchange to make it more Vicki Pollard / Lauren Cooper to emphasise the relentlessness of the repetition of the question as Lady H refuses to accept any answers other than the one she wants to hear.

It is quite possible that Lady H did not intend to be racist or to slight Ms Fulani in any way and that she is merely out of touch and elderly. It doesn't change the fact that this was not appropriate, and perhaps she is not the right person to be doing what she was doing. That said, my grandma was 103 when she passed away this year and she would not have pursued such a line of questioning for so long. Lady H seems to have no self-awareness at all.

Apropos of none of the rest of it..

But, how does having visited France help you know where you're from ??

I mean I have visited France on numerous occasions, and I also happen to know where I'm 'from' (well a couple of generations back anyhow)

So maybe there is a correlation 🤔

 

[Unkraut]

Any examination of prejudice, leaves them feeling a bit uncomfortable .

So they have to try to deflect the discourse onto stuff like 'wokeism' and any of the other words used to sneer at people trying to bring about change and progress .

I think the discomfort comes from wondering if racism is actually being stirred up for political purposes. Far from oppression being enshrined in law the opposite is now the case, and cases where you could have got away with discrimination in the past have now been done away with. That doesn't mean wrong attitudes have necessarily all gone by any means, but do we really want to live in a society where you have to watch every syllable you utter in case somebody is offended?

Isn't the culture of victimhood in danger of putting such progress as has been made into reverse?

It is quite possible that Lady H did not intend to be racist or to slight Ms Fulani in any way and that she is merely out of touch and elderly.

Since we don't know that (her intentions), doesn't that make this episode something of a storm in a Palace tea cup?

 

[winjim]

She was at work. It's her job to be welcoming, which in the environment she worked in involves a degree of cultural sensitivity.

Now regarding her resignation, my hunch is this. For most of her life she was essentially a PA to the late queen. When the queen died, she obviously couldn't do that any more so the palace found another job for her. With her old fashioned attitudes it turns out that it's not a job that suited her and fairly early on she made a bit of a cock up. At her age and with her experience she probably thought screw this, rather than have to go on any sort of diversity training or whatever at the age of 83 I'll just knock it on the head. I've had my time with the queen and now it's over this new role's not for me and I'd better just slip away.

Which is kind of fair enough really, given the context.