But Where Are You Really From?

[matticus]

In the case in point she condemned herself by her own actions.

You mean correctly assuming that Ngozi strongly identifies with her African heritage, simply by observing her unusual dress - unusual amongst the other black guests, and indeed for Hackney.
Yes, appearances CAN be very deceptive ...

 

[bobzmyunkle]

Condemning others as worse than yourself in this regard, or labelling someone else's view as "RACIST", smack of thought-crime to me.

Perhaps some people aren't using capital letters, aren't 'condemning' others and aren't presenting themselves as necessarily better.
We're just saying the behaviour was racist. The Palace appear to have accepted that and felt able to move on.
The sentence I've quoted above isn't quite in the same category as Neil Oliver whining about having his Christmas stolen, but it's heading that way.

 

[matticus]

Perhaps some people aren't using capital letters, aren't 'condemning' others and aren't presenting themselves as necessarily better.

Are you really so tone-deaf?!?

 

[bobzmyunkle]

Are you really so tone-deaf?!?

Apparently.

 

[qigong chimp]

But we ALL do that, EVERY time we meet someone! Even in a group entirely of our own race/gender/class.
Condemning others as worse than yourself in this regard, or labelling someone else's view as "RACIST", smack of thought-crime to me.

This is getting a bit concerning.
There's no doubting his fighter's heart, but matticus's cornermen should really be throwing in the towel now.

 

[matticus]

This is getting a bit concerning.
There's no doubting his fighter's heart, but matticus's cornermen should really be throwing in the towel now.

Have you just joined this thread? I knew it was missing a certain ... something. x

 

[icowden]

For the avoidance of doubt, it doesn't matter whether you are called Ngozi Fulani or Sharon Stone, whether you are wearing full Nigerian National Dress, or leggings and a crop top, there is nothing wrong with someone asking where you are from.

In the case of Ngozi, this might have been acceptable
For example:

Q: Oh - and where are you from?
A: Hackney
Q: Ah. I had assumed from your clothes and name that you might be from Nigeria. You must identify strongly with Nigeria and it's wonderful to see such bold colours. Tell me more about your organisation and what you do...

etc

But this:
Q:Oh - where are you from
A: Sistah space
Q: Yeah but Where are you from?
A: Hackney
Q: No but Where are you from?
A: You mean my ancestors?
Q: Yeah but where are you from?
A: Uk
Q: No but where are you from?
A: England
Q: Yeah but where are you FROM
A: Sorry - am I not getting through?
Q: No but where are YOU from?
A: I think I've covered this - can we move on?
Q: Oh you're Carribeann.
A: Seriously?

Is not OK.

 

[qigong chimp]

Have you just joined this thread? I knew it was missing a certain ... something. x

You can be proud of what you achieved here tonight. You have been a contender and no-one can take that away from you.
But for the sake of your health I have to stop the fight.

 

[Ian H]

You mean correctly assuming that Ngozi strongly identifies with her African heritage, simply by observing her unusual dress - unusual amongst the other black guests, and indeed for Hackney.
Yes, appearances CAN be very deceptive ...

No I don't. As you well know.

 

[matticus]

You can be proud of what you achieved here tonight. You have been a contender and no-one can take that away from you.
But for the sake of your health I have to stop the fight.

It's not true what they say: you really DO care.

 

[qigong chimp]

Think of your grandchildren.

 

[Unkraut]

Bzzzzt. Game over.

I don't think gender, race, women's, sexual minorities' studies, CRT, intersectionality and identity politics are renowned for being bees in the bonnet of the political right. They don't seem to talk about everything being a 'social construct' that needs to be 'deconstructed'.

Just as classic Marxism had the proletariat and bourgeoisie we now have the categories of oppressed and oppressor.

 

[mudsticks]

I think even the most insulated, privileged citizens living under apartheid would be AWARE of such hierarchies!

Of course many didn't think there was anything wrong with it; that's the problem.

And there's still racism here and now in our society only not so overt perhaps..

But it's still there..
Perhaps you don't notice it so much, could this be because you're white?
Who knows?

But it's still there , some folks thinks that's bad, some think it's fine, some are indifferent and don't give a shoot because it doesn't affect them directly.

But we ALL do that, EVERY time we meet someone! Even in a group entirely of our own race/gender/class.
Condemning others as worse than yourself in this regard, or labelling someone else's view as "RACIST", smack of thought-crime to me.

No one's shouting , or condemning anyone as 'worse' it's just pointing something out a situation that's happened, which is an example of something that has been happening for a long time.

And which needs to change.
Try a little more understanding and awareness, just a little less defensiveness.

Thinking is not a crime, thinking more deeply, even less so.

 

[icowden]

Perhaps you don't notice it so much, could this be because you're white?

Brilliant point. I have no idea really how much racism is about. I'm a middle aged white man.
What I do know is that until people who are not white have stopped complaining about it, and pointing it out, it is still a problem.

I like to think that we are much better than really backward 3rd world countries like the USA, but things still need work. Part of that is normalisation and acceptance and not asking someone 7 times a row "where are you from".

 

[mudsticks]

I don't think gender, race, women's, sexual minorities' studies, CRT, intersectionality and identity politics are renowned for being bees in the bonnet of the political right. They don't seem to talk about everything being a 'social construct' that needs to be 'deconstructed'.

Just as classic Marxism had the proletariat and bourgeoisie we now have the categories of oppressed and oppressor.

Well I wonder if that's because the 'political right' want to hang on to the status quo?

They're quite happy for those structural disadvantages - which advantage them - to be maintained.

Any examination of prejudice, leaves them feeling a bit uncomfortable .

So they have to try to deflect the discourse onto stuff like 'wokeism' and any of the other words used to sneer at people trying to bring about change and progress .

Just a possibility maybe ??