But Where Are You Really From?

[Deleted member 28]

I answered above:- 'Context is everything. If you're trying to be offensive I expect you'll succeed. In that sense the actual words matter less than your intentions in using them'.

So you still haven't answered then.

Would you be offended in any of these situations............

There's a 'half caste' fella bought the house next to me.

There's a 'person of colour' bought the house next to me.

There's a BAME person bought the house next to me.

 

[icowden]

There's a 'half caste' fella bought the house next to me.

Yes. That's pretty racist.

There's a 'person of colour' bought the house next to me.

Are you american?

There's a BAME person bought the house next to me.

Just sounds weird.

Why are you so obsessed with the skin colour of your new neighbour? It sounds a little bit racist to me...

Since I bought my house, 3 of the neighbours have changed. At no point have I felt the need to describe their skin colour, ethnicity or nationality. One family is Spanish, one Asian and one is white.

What's more important to me is that the Spanish family on the left of my house are very nice, the white family across from me are also nice people and the Asian family next to them are also nice people.

 

[Bromptonaut]

Context is everything. If you're trying to be offensive I expect you'll succeed. In that sense the actual words matter less than your intentions in using them.
As for 'half-caste', I'm not of (visibly) mixed heritage, so the phrase doesn't hurt me personally*. I wouldn't use it, even if a friend used it about themselves. People will sometimes use negative epithets about themselves as a kind of shield to deflect prejudice and gain acceptance. It doesn't mean that they're entirely okay with it.

*which is different from perhaps finding the person using it offensive.

I worked for a while with lady of Muslim faith (I learned a huge amount from her about Islam as a way of life not just a religion).

She was Yemeni on one side of her family and Somali on the other. Described herself as 'half terrorist half pirate'.

 

[matticus]

The Romanians two doors down were total peanuts* before they moved out.

(I don't recall their skin colour.)

*Just for clarity, this word has been auto-moderated.

 

[Ian H]

So you still haven't answered then.

Would you be offended in any of these situations............

There's a 'half caste' fella bought the house next to me.

There's a 'person of colour' bought the house next to me.

There's a BAME person bought the house next to me.

As my clear answer says, it depends on whether you are trying to be offensive. None of them are a good choice of words. I'd wonder why the description was needed. I could understand 'cheerful', aggressive', 'friendly', etc.

 

[Bromptonaut]

So you still haven't answered then.

Would you be offended in any of these situations............

There's a 'half caste' fella bought the house next to me.

There's a 'person of colour' bought the house next to me.

There's a BAME person bought the house next to me.

Half caste is offensive and I'd be pulled up sharp for using it at work.

Person of colour still reads to me as person of color - American. I'm not sure whether its actually gaining currency here or not.

BAME was probably never that good a description for an individual. More of a top level description for a group into which one might then drill down.

But as to your new neighbour why not just say there's a Black, Asian or mixed race fella bought the house next to me?

 

[Deleted member 28]

Yes. That's pretty racist.


Are you american?



Just sounds weird.

Why are you so obsessed with the skin colour of your new neighbour? It sounds a little bit racist to me...

Since I bought my house, 3 of the neighbours have changed. At no point have I felt the need to describe their skin colour, ethnicity or nationality. One family is Spanish, one Asian and one is white.

What's more important to me is that the Spanish family on the left of my house are very nice, the white family across from me are also nice people and the Asian family next to them are also nice people.

As usual you're just being a c**k, which is fine by me as I doubt I'll ever bump into you unless I'm around Stone when you move there (I think that was you?) but you know where I'm coming from.

Why is half caste racist, I'm not American but it's another bullsh*t phrase created by someone and obviously it sounds weird because the whole thing is ridiculous.

You've hit the nail on the head and done my job for me, why the f*ck do certain groups of people feel they need to dream up new descriptions for themselves when the 'old' ones were more than adequate?

Like you I see nothing wrong with the 'Jamaican' family or the 'Asians' or the 'Chinese' etc, etc.

 

[BoldonLad]

Yes. That's pretty racist.


Are you american?


Just sounds weird.

Why are you so obsessed with the skin colour of your new neighbour? It sounds a little bit racist to me...

Since I bought my house, 3 of the neighbours have changed. At no point have I felt the need to describe their skin colour, ethnicity or nationality. One family is Spanish, one Asian and one is white.

What's more important to me is that the Spanish family on the left of my house are very nice, the white family across from me are also nice people and the Asian family next to them are also nice people.

Feeling paranoid are we?

 

[Deleted member 28]

As my clear answer says, it depends on whether you are trying to be offensive. None of them are a good choice of words. I'd wonder why the description was needed. I could understand 'cheerful', aggressive', 'friendly', etc.

No you haven't.

Half caste is offensive and I'd be pulled up sharp for using it at work.

Person of colour still reads to me as person of color - American. I'm not sure whether its actually gaining currency here or not.

BAME was probably never that good a description for an individual. More of a top level description for a group into which one might then drill down.

But as to your new neighbour why not just say there's a Black, Asian or mixed race fella bought the house next to me?

You tell me why these descriptions have been created and what's more important is why they were created and then who decided they were no longer acceptable and then why do people that are not members of aforementioned groups take it on board to be offended?

 

[Deleted member 28]

Half caste is offensive and I'd be pulled up sharp for using it at work.

Person of colour still reads to me as person of color - American. I'm not sure whether its actually gaining currency here or not.

BAME was probably never that good a description for an individual. More of a top level description for a group into which one might then drill down.

But as to your new neighbour why not just say there's a Black, Asian or mixed race fella bought the house next to me?

I would do but I'm trying to establish why these terms have been super ceded and then deemed unacceptable by certain people.

Who says half caste is offensive, mixed race people?

 

[mudsticks]

I would do but I'm trying to establish why these terms have been super ceded and then deemed unacceptable by certain people.

Who says half caste is offensive, mixed race people?

I wonder if you've ever considered doing some research, reading around the subject, and or consulting a search engine.??

I don't think anyone here considers themselves particularly to be an expert in these matters.

Most* if not all of us are just reasonably well meaning members of the human race, trying to do our best to be as non discrimatory, and as inoffensive as is reasonably possible, and gathering insight regarding all that along the way.

Some of us work in areas where this is particularly important, and or have had some ' training in, or more exposure to, these concepts than others.

Several people here have even taken the trouble to post informative links .

Maybe you could do them the courtesy of actually reading those, or doing some online research, instead of endlessly badgering with the same old questions, to which you have already received answers.

The fact that you seem incapable of understanding or absorbing that information isn't the fault of those offering it.

*Happy to be informed otherwise of course.

 

[Deleted member 28]

Surely as one of the most outspoken members it would be simple enough for you to bestow your knowledge, doesn't usually stop you, as to what you think.

The stock answer to anything would be 'Google it' but where would that leave us?

If speaking to someone in the pub would you tell them to consult the internet or offer a few pearls of wisdom?

 

[mudsticks]

Surely as one of the most outspoken members it would be simple enough for you to bestow your knowledge, doesn't usually stop you, as to what you think.

The stock answer to anything would be 'Google it' but where would that leave us?

If speaking to someone in the pub would you tell them to consult the internet or offer a few pearls of wisdom?

I have 'bestowed' my knowledge multiple times, as have others, the fact that you don't seem able to understand or absorb it isn't our fault.

I think if I found myself in the pub sat next to someone such as yourself, with such a limited ability or seeming willingness to understand these concepts, despite my trying a few times I'd either go and find other company, or change the subject.

Or as in your own words upthread
'I'd leave them to it'



I

 

[Mugshot]

I think if I found myself in the pub sat next to someone such as yourself, with such a limited ability or seeming willingness to understand these concepts, despite my trying a few times I'd either go and find other company, or change the subject.

I think Shep would have already offered you outside for having a different opinion.

As usual you're just being a c**k, which is fine by me as I doubt I'll ever bump into you unless I'm around Stone when you move there (I think that was you?) but you know where I'm coming from.

 

[winjim]

You wouldn't describe a person or a family as 'BAME', you'd use the particular description of their ethnicity, if you had reason to describe it at all. BAME is more of a general term used at the population level, which I think is the reason it seems to have fallen out of favour, it's much too general to the point of being a bit clumsy.

It's a process of continuous improvement, isn't it, along with a sort of fractal approach to identity. Every time you identify a population and make accommodations to suit them, you can then zoom in on them and discover further subdivisions which you can then work towards accommodating even more specifically, should that be desired. Iterate and improve. Hopefully peoples expectations are increasing as well, maybe a few years ago the situation was such that use of a certain type of language was the best that could be hoped for, and maybe it's to be expected that we've made some progress since then.

Regarding what minorities have decided they would like to be called, firstly that lumps all minorities together, and also lumps the minorities of previous generations in with those of today. These are different people, not just between minority groups but also across generations and they are going to have different attitudes. To put them all together in one box labelled 'minorities' is itself a bit racist and is exactly the sort of thing that this improvement in language is trying to move away from.