winjim
Welcome yourself into the new modern crisis
That's funny because I have been using the word 'mandatory' in my conversation with you.
So you're talking a load of disingenuous bollocks as usual.
Bye Bye Democracy.
- Thread starter cookiemonster
- Start date
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That's funny because I have been using the word 'mandatory' in my conversation with you.
So you're talking a load of disingenuous bollocks as usual.
Bromptonaut
Rohan Man
- Location
- Bugbrooke, Northants
Gibraltar is not part of the UK but rather a British Overseas Territory.
The Crofted Crest
Active Member
Hitchington
Wokey Dick
- Location
- New York-Paris-Pokemon
Rusty Nails
Country Member
There's no disputing this point, but if younger people vote in the same numbers as the older ones, it may help negate the effects of the proposed changes. Something just over 50% of people under 35 voted in recent elections compared to around 80% of 65+.
Even in the Brexit referendum, with its relatively high turnout, around 65% of younger people voted compared to around 90% of the oldies.
Conservatives have, to a great extent, relied on the disinterest and apathy of younger people to help them previously so they have not needed to introduce this sort of gerrymandering obstacle in the past. They are now getting desperate at the thought of losing the next GE, even down to bribing the old to keep voting for them.
slowmotion
Active Member
Glancing at that bar chart, it's glaringly obvious that a sinister, murky group is suppressing the votes of Tories aged 24 and under. Outrageous!
theclaud
Reading around the chip
Why would they, with no party representing their interests?
Rusty Nails
Country Member
That's a cop out. The majority of those who do vote, vote Labour.
It just needs more of them to accept that political choices do impact upon them, and that they can have an influence on those political choices if they take an interest, but that real change is not going to happen overnight and often requires patience.
It has always been an issue that young people do not take as much of an active interest in politics as they could...politics, like pensions, is for oldies. It was like that when I was young and it is a failure of all parties that nothing has been done in our educational system, or the examples set by politicians, to change it.
This clearly does not concern the Tories, who profit from the fact that people generally grow more conservative as they grow older, but it is something that I would have hoped Labour would have acted upon in the past.
Once a Wheeler
New Member
Identity is at the heart of many contentions in society. The term Global Village has been around for half a century or so and its reality is getting ever more apparent. Yet the traditional village could work the way it did precisely because everybody knew who everyone else was and anonymity was not an option. Even if the medieval equivalent of trolling — backbiting, malicious gossip and downright slander — did take place, the perpetrators were generally known and in consequence dismissed from serious consideration. There were precious few votes for most people before the 20th century; but those that were held were seldom susceptible to personation (identity fraud). The problems in those days were more often bribary and intimidation which are now less of a problem.
In our time, identity is a major question. Many of us have very little idea of the identity of people living only a few houses down the street; whilst those living in blocks of flats can be virtually invisible. In a situation such as this, it is a wonder that democracy can function at all. The notion that utility bills and driving licences are sufficient to establish identity is almost laughable. Presumably this legislation arises from evidence that personation is significant in some areas. If this is so, then formal identification is necessary for democracy. If general-purpose ID cards are still a step too far for some people, then the fact of significant personation should at least impose biometric voting cards which are issued free of charge to everyone as soon as they are qualified to vote. We accept current voting cards without much opposition. If the alternative is rigged voting, then compulsory biometrec voting cards would seem to me to be an acceptable policy. Of course, a minority would delight in public burnings of biometric voting cards but such cards would seem to me to be part of the price of eternal vigilance rather than a symbol of loss of freedom.
In our time, identity is a major question. Many of us have very little idea of the identity of people living only a few houses down the street; whilst those living in blocks of flats can be virtually invisible. In a situation such as this, it is a wonder that democracy can function at all. The notion that utility bills and driving licences are sufficient to establish identity is almost laughable. Presumably this legislation arises from evidence that personation is significant in some areas. If this is so, then formal identification is necessary for democracy. If general-purpose ID cards are still a step too far for some people, then the fact of significant personation should at least impose biometric voting cards which are issued free of charge to everyone as soon as they are qualified to vote. We accept current voting cards without much opposition. If the alternative is rigged voting, then compulsory biometrec voting cards would seem to me to be an acceptable policy. Of course, a minority would delight in public burnings of biometric voting cards but such cards would seem to me to be part of the price of eternal vigilance rather than a symbol of loss of freedom.
newfhouse
pleb
Presumption to fact in a single bound.
The Electoral Commission disagrees with you. (Post #59)
Wobblers
Member
Hmmm. Ignoring theClaud's very valid point that no mainstream political party seriously represents the interests of the young seems to me to be a rather significant cop out in itself.
The fact is that young voters just aren't represented by the major parties. What's the average age of an MP? How many are under the age of, say, 30? Coupled with the fact that many polcies enacted are rather detrimental to their interests - tuition fees being the very obvious example, but there are others, such as those under 25 have much more limited access to benefits - is it any wonder so many don't vote?
A democracy can only function when all members of it are represented - insisting that someone should vote even when faced with choices that are all demonstrably detrimental to their interests is iin of itself a serious failing. In those circumstances, the only logical, and indeed most democratic course is to withhold one's vote.
In any case, adding more obstacles to the voting process is not the way to increase voter engagement.
theclaud
Reading around the chip
Can you imagine anyone volunteering to knock on people's doors and ask them to vote for this shower of shit?
deptfordmarmoset
Über Member
Wes Streeting has a different take on Labour's policy.
View: https://twitter.com/wesstreeting/status/1601706819713654784
theclaud
Reading around the chip
Call me old-fashioned, but if I were Shadow Health Secretary and a representative of a party called 'Labour', I would probably think quite carefully before gifting a rabidly anti-union newspaper of the ruling classes a headline of this kind in the middle of mass industrial action across the public sector. Unless I were a stooge of private interests, of course, then I'd do what Streeting just did.
