Cannabis as a Class A drug?

[Mr Celine]

We could have a new battery of regulations....

You deserve to be locked up for that. In a cell...

 

[Bromptonaut]

You deserve to be locked up for that. In a cell...

A series of cells even?

 

[Craig the cyclist]

I put a laugh emoji there because she didn't die from taking E, she died from drinking a lake in minutes.

Why do you think she drank so much water?

To give you a clue, it wasn't because she didn't follow guidelines.

 

[All uphill]

You deserve to be locked up for that. In a cell...

You should be charged for making that pun

 

[Craig the cyclist]

I suspect that some, perhaps many, of those taking cannabis are self medicating.

In my experience that is exactly what is happening, they are self-medicating their psychosis brought on by smoking cannabis in the first place. It is the ultimate viscous circle.

Someone develops a psychosis, they come to the attention of the MH services, they get medicated and balanced. Then as they are now 'well', they go back to smoking cannabis and it all falls apart again. Now have a guess which drugs get the blame for making them unwell, and which get the plaudit for making them better again. So they go back into hospital, stop the cannabis, get back on medication, become well, get discharged and go back to cannabis........

The average CPN will have probably 15-20 or so such individuals on their caseload.

 

[AndyRM]

Why do you think she drank so much water?

To give you a clue, it wasn't because she didn't follow guidelines.

I don't know why she drank so much water. Do you?

The hysteria about E probably didn't help.

 

[All uphill]

In my experience that is exactly what is happening, they are self-medicating their psychosis brought on by smoking cannabis in the first place. It is the ultimate viscous circle.

Someone develops a psychosis, they come to the attention of the MH services, they get medicated and balanced. Then as they are now 'well', they go back to smoking cannabis and it all falls apart again. Now have a guess which drugs get the blame for making them unwell, and which get the plaudit for making them better again. So they go back into hospital, stop the cannabis, get back on medication, become well, get discharged and go back to cannabis........

The average CPN will have probably 15-20 or so such individuals on their caseload.

I get that, @Craig the cyclist and have worked as a volunteer with people in that kind of cycle.

The difficult question is what to do?

Lock them up, ignore them, educate the next generation, try to reduce harm or something else.

What's your preference?

 

[Craig the cyclist]

When discussing the effect of MDMA earlier you said this.....

Not directly, no. It doesn't make you thirsty either.

You then asked this....

I don't know why she drank so much water. Do you?

Do some reading about MDMA, and its effects on hormone control, your own perception of thirst and hydration, then have a think about what you have written here.

 

[Deleted member 49]

I wouldn't encourage the use of any drugs,but people are going to take them anyway legal or not.So why not legalise them, regulate them and make sure that people are educated on what to do and how to safely take them.I know personally quite a few people who've died from drug abuse,also have a family member who suffers from Schizophrenia,he was a big weed smoker.But we all think we're invincible when young don't we ? Well I certainly did.
Drugs when I was young included aerosols and glue.Nowadays kids are getting high of synthetic stuff you buy off the internet and inhaling nitrous oxide out of balloons !
Daughter has just come back from Leeds festival and says you could get whatever you wanted easily.Its not going to stop so at least we should try and make it as safe as we can ?

 

[AndyRM]

When discussing the effect of MDMA earlier you said this.....

You then asked this....


Do some reading about MDMA, and its effects on hormone control, your own perception of thirst and hydration, then have a think about what you have written here.

MDMA doesn't make you thirsty.

I don't need to read about it, I know what it does.

It's not a particularly dangerous drug.

Neither is cannabis. Which nobody 'takes' BTW. Get a clue.

 

[Craig the cyclist]

I get that, @Craig the cyclist and have worked as a volunteer with people in that kind of cycle.

The difficult question is what to do?

Lock them up, ignore them, educate the next generation, try to reduce harm or something else.

What's your preference?

I guess the answer is sort of 'all of the above'.

Plus the obvious 'treat them' option, which is what also happens. It is a complex social problem, and needs a real look, but the default position must not be to legalise a very harmful drug.

The problem though, is that drug taking, especially "low level self-medicating there is nothing harmful about it, I have it all under control and it doesn't effect me cannabis" is that, as demonstrated by lots of posters on here, is seen as not being harmful.

Then when it does go bad, the situation is blamed on everything except the cannabis. We have even had MDMA added to the roll-call of harmless drugs, and @AndyRM is frankly embarrassing himself with his total lack of acknowledgement about the harmful effects of MDMA and it's role in the death of Leah Betts.

 

[AndyRM]

I guess the answer is sort of 'all of the above'.

Plus the obvious 'treat them' option, which is what also happens. It is a complex social problem, and needs a real look, but the default position must not be to legalise a very harmful drug.

The problem though, is that drug taking, especially "low level self-medicating there is nothing harmful about it, I have it all under control and it doesn't effect me cannabis" is that, as demonstrated by lots of posters on here, is seen as not being harmful.

Then when it does go bad, the situation is blamed on everything except the cannabis. We have even had MDMA added to the roll-call of harmless drugs, and @AndyRM is frankly embarrassing himself with his total lack of acknowledgement about the harmful effects of MDMA and it's role in the death of Leah Betts.

She died because she drank too much water due to the scaremongering shite that's peddled about drugs.

 

[Craig the cyclist]

Do you take cannabis @AndyRM ?

Not as much as I used to, but yes.

Neither is cannabis. Which nobody 'takes' BTW. Get a clue.

Seriously, you need to ease off it @AndyRM You are all over the place mate!

 

[Fab Foodie]

You should be charged for making that pun

Under current NACA rules you have to give ample time for him to reconsider. We don't want a revolt on our hands....

 

[dutchguylivingintheuk]

I guess the answer is sort of 'all of the above'.

Plus the obvious 'treat them' option, which is what also happens. It is a complex social problem, and needs a real look, but the default position must not be to legalise a very harmful drug.

The problem though, is that drug taking, especially "low level self-medicating there is nothing harmful about it, I have it all under control and it doesn't effect me cannabis" is that, as demonstrated by lots of posters on here, is seen as not being harmful.

Then when it does go bad, the situation is blamed on everything except the cannabis. We have even had MDMA added to the roll-call of harmless drugs, and @AndyRM is frankly embarrassing himself with his total lack of acknowledgement about the harmful effects of MDMA and it's role in the death of Leah Betts.

There is nothing wrong with legalizing canabis, if it should be used for medical purposes is an whole other matter, but if you're really fair, the current prescription medication for psychoses isn't good either, it has a lot of nasty side effects too.

And current off the shelf medication can lead to addictions and site effects too, just as alcohol can which you can buy in every store. Yet we don't see great numbers in alcohol addicts, and we won't see that with canabis either, ad yes i known since it has been ''legal'' in the Netherlands for a long time and there is not significant rise in addictions. And they isn't because there is a lack of trying to pin things down to drugs abuse.

(''legal'' between quotation's because is actually a little more complicated, a consumable amount is legal, growing you own weed plant is too, but anything above one plant, or a ''consumable amount'' is still not legal'')

One more thing, legalizing is just one final step, it always the goverment to take back control because it's an illusion to think because it's illegal's it's under control now. In the Netherlands i was never offered canabis/weed on the street, in the town where i live now it happens now and then. So it not being legal is not really an obstacle.