Changing your mind

[Ian H]

Isn't the point that, the way the current system works:

if you take a degree which gives a good ROI, then you pay back a significant portion of the "loan", perhaps, even all of it

if you take a degree which does not give a good ROI, in all probability to pay back little or nothing of the "loan"

Only a Politician could dream up such a stupid system. IMHO.

Why is it stupid?

 

[BoldonLad]

Why is it stupid?

Some things are beyond explanation

 

[First Aspect]

If higher education is all about training for specific work skills why not scrap degrees and go straight for BTECs all round.

Who needs degrees in Art, History, Literature, where's the benefit to national GDP.

I've been arguing this point for years more or less.

In fairness, those mindfulness degrees were at the upper end of things that have no place being government funded.

And many of the other stupidly designed courses should really be modules of other degrees.

A decent system would be to give the Noddy in Toyland modules, the ones you only need a crayon to pass, an appropriate number of points towards the degree in question. For example none, because it's something students should be doing in their spare time.

 

[First Aspect]

Isn't the point that, the way the current system works:

if you take a degree which gives a good ROI, then you pay back a significant portion of the "loan", perhaps, even all of it

if you take a degree which does not give a good ROI, in all probability to pay back little or nothing of the "loan"

Only a Politician could dream up such a stupid system. IMHO.

Yeah, but they've priced them all the same. Medical and science degrees are vastly expensive compared to an arts degree.

So it works, kinda. Except science, which has shjt salaries.

 

[Ian H]

Some things are beyond explanation

The existence of god or gods perhaps, or quantum physics, but to argue that education should be solely for money is basically philistine.

 

[First Aspect]

The existence of god or gods perhaps, or quantum physics, but to argue that education should be solely for money is basically philistine.

They've gone a long way to explaining quantum physics. You can even do a degree to study it. Called physics.

 

[BoldonLad]

Yeah, but they've priced them all the same. Medical and science degrees are vastly expensive compared to an arts degree.

So it works, kinda. Except science, which has shjt salaries.

As you may have gathered, I am way over "student age", even my children and some of my grandchildren are over "student age", so, I may not be fully conversant with "further education costs", but, it appears to me that the cost of the course is not the major cost, student loans are maxed out to fund "living costs" which typically exceed Course Fees.

In my working life, I worked alongside numerous graduates, with useless degrees, who were earning NMW or slightly above, they were never going to pay back the thousands of pounds of "loan".

Even the wording is all wrong, where else do you get a loan, where the repayments are reduced if you don't earn very much, and, the lion is written off completely if you fail to pay it back by a certain age?

 

[BoldonLad]

The existence of god or gods perhaps, or quantum physics, but to argue that education should be solely for money is basically philistine.

Yes, but, I wasn't arguing that, as you may note in my response to Rusty 😊

 

[Ian H]

They've gone a long way to explaining quantum physics. You can even do a degree to study it. Called physics.

There seems to be a deficiency in English comprehension - rhetoric, hyperbole, etc.

 

[midlandsgrimpeur]

I have arts degrees, going to University changed me as a person, it equipped me to think critically and to value intellectual rigour. It also exposed me to a massive range of people and understand other views and experiences in life. Without that I would be a siginificantly different person and would have lived a markedly different life.

 

[First Aspect]

As you may have gathered, I am way over "student age", even my children and some of my grandchildren are over "student age", so, I may not be fully conversant with "further education costs", but, it appears to me that the cost of the course is not the major cost, student loans are maxed out to fund "living costs" which typically exceed Course Fees.

In my working life, I worked alongside numerous graduates, with useless degrees, who were earning NMW or slightly above, they were never going to pay back the thousands of pounds of "loan".

Even the wording is all wrong, where else do you get a loan, where the repayments are reduced if you don't earn very much, and, the lion is written off completely if you fail to pay it back by a certain age?

Had to Google it. Average maintenance loans are currently about £6k a year, tuition about £10k a year. So there's something in what you are saying.

 

[BoldonLad]

I have arts degrees, going to University changed me as a person, it equipped me to think critically and to value intellectual rigour. It also exposed me to a massive range of people and understand other views and experiences in life. Without that I would be a siginificantly different person and would have lived a markedly different life.

Probably not a popular view on here, but, I even think that "going to University" is a (better) substitute than Conscription, particularly for the male of the species. Means they at least have to make a semblance of an effort to look after themselves, plus, the items you list ie meeting a range of people, experiences, etc 😂

I didn't go to University and, too young for Conscription by the way. Family circumstances meant no University, qualifications were obtained via day release / evening classes, then Open University.

 

[Ianonabike]

I have arts degrees, going to University changed me as a person, it equipped me to think critically and to value intellectual rigour. It also exposed me to a massive range of people and understand other views and experiences in life. Without that I would be a siginificantly different person and would have lived a markedly different life.

It did the same for me, at least until a gap year extended indefinitely. Ultimately I got a degree in the school of hard knocks.