Climate Crisis: Are we doing enough?

[lazybloke]

Actually that could be a little short sighted. EVs could end car dependency.

This is the purported reason that Tesla are trying to get autonomous cars. It was in one of Musk's mission statements.
The rationale is that if cars can drive themselves, then ownership can reduce. The biggest cost in a taxi is the driver, followed by fuel. Our robot overlords will not need paying. At the moment it costs about £2.80 to get from my house to about 2 miles away on a bus. Imagine if you can open an app on your phone and have a car turn up to take you where you need to go for half that price. Owning a car costs me about £13.50 per day plus fuel (about £1.80 per day). So I need to be able to do my daily journeys for less than that.

You're only describing the replacement of personal car ownership with a pool of cheaper taxis. How does this reduce journeys?

If anything you've created the conditions for more car usage; as you've enabled non-drivers to make journeys, regardless of their driving licence, or sobriety. You could see a massive increase in demand for journeys, and an increase in car dependency.

It's not the utopia you imply; I suggest the concept is promoted in the name of profit.


For what it's worth, I do think some universal EV taxi option is likely in the UK in the not too-distant future, and with some benefits too; but not if implemented as the cheap option of convenience that you describe.
We need to be serious about the health of the nation and have the costs of driving (autonomous or otherwise) to be punitive to properly fund active travel policy and NL-style cycling infrastructure.

 

[icowden]

You're only describing the replacement of personal car ownership with a pool of cheaper taxis. How does this reduce journeys?

It doesn't - but why should it?

If anything you've created the conditions for more car usage; as you've enabled non-drivers to make journeys, regardless of their driving licence, or sobriety. You could see a massive increase in demand for journeys, and an increase in car dependency.

But fewer cars - which is the main problem with car dependency

It's not the utopia you imply; I suggest the concept is promoted in the name of profit.

Yet Musk has prevously agreed that it could be financial suicide.

For what it's worth, I do think some universal EV taxi option is likely in the UK in the not too-distant future, and with some benefits too; but not if implemented as the cheap option of convenience that you describe.

Why not? Surely if we can make it easier for people to get to the places they need to go, that would be better no?

 

[albion]

Starmer needs to order a few thousand of these. Beggars cannot be choosers.
https://www.newscientist.com/articl...nshore-wind-turbine-blades-unveiled-in-china/
UK owned, the profits would be massive.

 

[Fab Foodie]

You're only describing the replacement of personal car ownership with a pool of cheaper taxis. How does this reduce journeys?

If anything you've created the conditions for more car usage; as you've enabled non-drivers to make journeys, regardless of their driving licence, or sobriety. You could see a massive increase in demand for journeys, and an increase in car dependency.

It's not the utopia you imply; I suggest the concept is promoted in the name of profit.


For what it's worth, I do think some universal EV taxi option is likely in the UK in the not too-distant future, and with some benefits too; but not if implemented as the cheap option of convenience that you describe.
We need to be serious about the health of the nation and have the costs of driving (autonomous or otherwise) to be punitive to properly fund active travel policy and NL-style cycling infrastructure.

And redesign urban areas towards a 15 minute city stylee!

 

[lazybloke]

But fewer cars - which is the main problem with car dependency

Fewer cars is the one of the good outcomes of a "universal taxi service".

But if total journeys don't reduce, then the experience on the roads (for pedestrians, wildlife, cyclists, horses, passengers and drivers ) won't have improved, and if you think the roads are pleasant then we have very different standards. There will still be unpleasant congestion in towns, on school runs, noise within a mile or so of every A road.

I'm on occasional driver myself so I understand there's a balance to be struck, but look at average journey lengths, congestion stats, and then consider BMI changes and the health of the nation, and it's not difficult to see that cars are over-used.

Why not? Surely if we can make it easier for people to get to the places they need to go, that would be better no?

So you see no problem with more journeys being made but still promote this as the end of car dependency?
I'm happy that my opinions won't match those of others, I'm just surprised to experience such a driver mentality on a cycling website.

 

[icowden]

So you see no problem with more journeys being made but still promote this as the end of car dependency?

People are always going to make the journeys that they make. The input is constant. If you need to go to the shops, you need to go to the shops.
Population is predicted to fall, the advent of covid and home delivery has already eliminated many journeys.

Things can only get better !

 

[matticus]

People are always going to make the journeys that they make. The input is constant. If you need to go to the shops, you need to go to the shops.
Population is predicted to fall, the advent of covid and home delivery has already eliminated many journeys.

Things can only get better !

I was going to give some examples to rebut your statement, but you've already put a good one there in your post

 

[lazybloke]

People are always going to make the journeys that they make. The input is constant. If you need to go to the shops, you need to go to the shops.
Population is predicted to fall, the advent of covid and home delivery has already eliminated many journeys.

Things can only get better !

Those are good points, and the long term trends are a drop in annual mileage (in the uk).

Not so much for commuting sadly, which us a shame for cycle commuters and school run cyclists, but SDP and Business mileages have dropped plenty in recent decades.

I'd just like the drop to continue, and especially to see peak traffic levels reducing a lot more.

 

[Bazzer]

Those are good points, and the long term trends are a drop in annual mileage (in the uk).

Not so much for commuting sadly, which us a shame for cycle commuters and school run cyclists, but SDP and Business mileages have dropped plenty in recent decades.

I'd just like the drop to continue, and especially to see peak traffic levels reducing a lot more.

Is this drop in annual mileage per vehicle or family?

 

[albion]

https://www.theguardian.com/environ...nearing-devastating-tipping-point-study-finds

This tipping point might happen next year and would mean our seasons may all change.
There is debate as to when, it being suspected to be a cliff edge like change, caused by ice melts changing the heat flow.

 

[dutchguylivingintheuk]

The article isn't clear on whether the battery exploded and destroyed a home and 12 others in the same instance or separately but assuming its separately, that is still an extremely low failure rate since they have already replaced over 18000 and are locating a further 5000. Still, seems like the company are reacting to it so that's a good thing. Also, the article headline says 13 the article itself says 12. 🙄

It is simply an bad idea all batteries have an fire risk and battery fires are hard to extinquish. if you however convert the solar electricity into liquid hydrogen you have something that is easyer to store and has the same benefits as battery storage without the downsides. (yes you loose some while converting, but that is a small price to pay compared to the much reduces fire and fire impact risk, as liquid hydrogen doesn't burn, if there is a fire it would be the solar panels and such)

https://www.carmagazine.co.uk/car-news/tech/battery-range-estimates/

Info there suggests batteries get condemned due to lack of data. So maybe these packs were simply too optimistic in reporting 'still healthy'.

Nonsense thee is more then enough data that shows batteries have a higher burn risk and in addition are harder to extinguish if they catch fire. If a battery pack reports healthy or not however has nothing to do with the most common reasons of them to catch fire.
Regulations do matter as China with zero to no regulation has a much larger random eletric verhicle burning issue.
But still i don't understand why battery electric is hailed he solution, it takes little children to harvest all the cobalt and other minrals, and used batteries are not easy to recycle, it takes hours to recharge a battery vehicle, all the while the alternative electric liquid hydrogen cars have all the benefit of combustion engines and none of the downsides of batteries.

 

[Deleted member 121]

It is simply an bad idea all batteries have an fire risk and battery fires are hard to extinquish. if you however convert the solar electricity into liquid hydrogen you have something that is easyer to store and has the same benefits as battery storage without the downsides. (yes you loose some while converting, but that is a small price to pay compared to the much reduces fire and fire impact risk, as liquid hydrogen doesn't burn, if there is a fire it would be the solar panels and such)

Is this a joke?

 

[dutchguylivingintheuk]

For what it's worth, I do think some universal EV taxi option is likely in the UK in the not too-distant future, and with some benefits too; but not if implemented as the cheap option of convenience that you describe.
We need to be serious about the health of the nation and have the costs of driving (autonomous or otherwise) to be punitive to properly fund active travel policy and NL-style cycling infrastructure.

I'm not sure about exact numbers but i don't think car ownership (as in the number of household that own at least one car) is that much lower in the Netherlands. However car utilization is much different, you don't see big traffic jams during schoolruns every morning because even if it's 500m away, they have to take the suv.
It's more likely to be a traffic jam of bikes lol

But yes Nl-style infrastructure would help, all tough the investment needed would be massive and partly the benefits are being neglected due to ebikes. Youth obese is on the rise in the Netherlands for the same reason. On the other hand, there also needs to change something in terms of enforcement for example, i never in my 10+ years in the uk have someone see to get a fine for driving without lights, in the Netherlands you can be sure to get at least a warning if you don't have an working light on you bicyc;le, sounds like a small detail but it helps a lot. Futher they have recently have new testbanks so then can catch ebikes that go too fast. also something i never see them do here.

 

[dutchguylivingintheuk]

Is this a joke?

nope, here are a few links to educate you:
https://www.fsec.ucf.edu/en/consume...ext=The use of solar energy,The process works.

https://afdc.energy.gov/fuels/hydro...to-hydrogen projects are,the point of end use.

 

[Deleted member 121]

nope, here are a few links to educate you:
https://www.fsec.ucf.edu/en/consumer/hydrogen/basics/production-solar.htm#:~:text=The use of solar energy,The process works.

https://afdc.energy.gov/fuels/hydrogen_production.html#:~:text=Power-to-hydrogen projects are,the point of end use.

Im full aware of the various methods of production hydrogen. Those links aren't for domestic applications, It seems you are clueless.... How does Hydrogen suddenly become a liquid without the -253 degrees centigrade it needs to be before it's liquid?